Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere
co-authors are other participants quoted. I haven't changed content of thr replies, but quoted it part by part in my replies, interspersing each reply after relevant part. Sometimes I have also changed the order of replies with my retorts, so as to prioritate logical/topical over temporal/chronological connexions. That has also involved conflating more than one message. I have also left out mere insults.
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- A thread from Catholic.com (more may be added)
- Answering Steve Rudd
- Have these dialogues taken place? Yes.
- Copyright issues on blogposts with shared copyright
- I think I wrote a mistaken word somewhere on youtube - or perhaps not
- What is Expertise? Some Things It is Not.
- It Seems Apocalypse is Explained in a Very Relevant Part
- Dialoguing Mainly with Adversaries
- Why do my Posts Right Here Not Answer YOUR Questio...
Saturday, July 18, 2026
Robert Sarah is Wrong
What are the Two Apocalyptic Beasts Devouring Europe?
17.VII.2026 | Dr Taylor Marshall
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qrciVBhhfk8
Why do I think "Cardinal" Sarah is wrong?
Because, Islam, and mainly adapted Islam (Fundies are a minority) is part of a four headed leopard, and Sarah is not adressing the three other heads.
Because gender ideology is part of Communism, which as a whole is the fourth beast of a terrible aspect.
In Africa, notably Nigeria, an openly Fundamentalist Islam is the most horrible thing for Christians, since it easily gets weapons.
In Europe, adapted Islam is more horrible, since it easily gets influence and positions from which to persecute some singled out Christians.
Another Failed Attempt at Denying Genesis 5 and 11's Obvious Chronological Implications
Is It Even Our Math? What Biblical History Tells Us About Genesis
BLK SHP Bible Talk | 17 July 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfdxxeeecBM
The Bible isn't divided into things that tell plain facts and call for deeper consideration.
Each passage, not one exception, does both jobs.
Do you want to know the real theological value of Genesis 5 and 11, beyond the face value?
Luke 3:22—38
https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=3&l=22-38#x
Don't miss that Jesus was 72nd from Adam.
But that doesn't take away the face. And if you want to reexamine the life spans, but still admit Jesus is 72nd from Adam, that leaves an even shorter timespan for Earth.
If you pretend Jesus was 720th or 7200th from Adam, that changes God's covenant fidelity just as radically as if Antichrist got 1260 rather than 3 1/2 solar years.
2:50 What did you just say about camels?
Rebecca also, when she saw Isaac, lighted off the camel,
[Genesis 24:64]
3:08 I'm not sure Ur Kasdim is Woolley's Ur in South East Mesopotamia.
Ur basically means "city" and you find it in Ur, Uruk, to the best of my knowledge perhaps even Nipp-ur, so why not Ur-fa ... also known as Edessa, North West Mesopotamia, modern Turkey near the Syrian border. Modern name "venerable Urfa" or in Turkish: Şanlıurfa.
I am however pretty sure Genesis 14 carbon dates to 3500 BC. This means that we have no cuneiform texts (perhaps just inscriptions like "5 geese for temple of ..." and "this belongs to so and so" perhaps not even that). Which explains why the kings in that chapter are tricky to identify. I'd say Woolley's Ur was founded when Abram was very young, like a child of seven or perhaps newborn (carbon dating to 4000 BC).
3:34 If that Amorrhite migration came in carbon dated 2200 BC to 1800 BC, that would have been during the sojourn in Egypt. And yes, the 400 years would telescope into a shorter period. The 2200 BC date is misdated by more than the 1800 BC date.
So, no, Abraham came before that migration.
However, there were Amorrhites in Canaan in an on and off city called En Geddi, or back in that day Asason Tamar. Genesis 14 is presumably when their chalcolithic occupation thereof ended. If not, that would mean the carbon date of Genesis 14 would be even further back than 3500 BC.
5:04 1950 BC is not all bad. The Roman Martyrology for Christmas Day says Christ was born 5199 after Creation, 2957 after Flood and ... 2015 after the birth of Abraham.
The problem is, 2015 BC wouldn't line up with carbon dated 2000 BC, but with carbon dated 4000 BC.
5:17 I disagree. If Ur Kasdim really was Woolley's Ur, Abram left it in a stage of build-up.
Just as at 75 / 76, Abraham arrived in an Egypt in a build-up stage. The carbon date would have been 3500 BC, but like Abraham, so also the pharao would have died decades later which would carbon date to centuries later:
- 1916 BC
- Isaac born.
- 83.166 pmC, dated as 3440 BC
- 1897 BC
- 83.568 pmC, dated as 3381 BC
- 1881 BC
- Terah died
- 1877 BC
- 83.97 pmC, dated as 3321 BC
- 1857 BC
- 84.371 pmC, dated as 3262 BC
- 1856 BC
- Jacob and Esau born
- 1841 BC
- Abraham died
- 1838 BC
- 84.77 pmC, dated as 3204 BC
[Creation vs. Evolution: Newer Tables, Flood to Joseph in Egypt
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2024/12/newer-tables-flood-to-joseph-in-egypt.html]
5:47 What we know as the Sumerian King List may have been totally unknown to Abraham:
The Sumerian King List (abbreviated SKL) or Chronicle of the One Monarchy is an ancient literary composition written in Sumerian that was likely created and redacted to legitimize the claims to power of various city-states and kingdoms in southern Mesopotamia during the late third and early second millennium BC.[2][3][4] It does so by repetitively listing Sumerian cities, the kings that ruled there, and the lengths of their reigns. Especially in the early part of the list, these reigns often span thousands of years. In the oldest known version, dated to the Ur III period (c. 2112 – c. 2004 BC) but probably based on Akkadian source material, the SKL reflected a more linear transition of power from Kish, the first city to receive kingship, to Akkad.
Ur III was during the sojourn in Egypt.
5:55 "this was scribal school material, popular literature in Abram's youth"
Scribes were a very restricted élite by the time we get to the king's list.
It would apart from that kind of functionary also have included monarchs, so, Egypt functioned on a similar basis, Moses had the knowledge of Egyptian scribes. However supposing such scribes even existed back when Abram was young, nothing says he would himself have been involved with them.
8:43 Yes, the SKL does have a number of pre-Flood kings corresponding to Genesis 5 minus Adam and Noah.
That's also Genesis 4 plus one king after Lamech.
12:05 So, your point is basically, if a pair of stories in the Bible are related in a literary genre sort of way, they need to have at least one unliteral?
Did Eve not listen to the serpent? Or did Mary not listen to the word of God through Gabriel?
For me, obviously both literally did so, even if that makes them a literary pair and one which Medieval theology made very famous.
16:18 Thank you for not holding to pre-Adamism.
The Catholic Church condemned it.
18:09 "Already speaking different languages."
Does not follow.
I'd say that "and their languages" is here used proleptically, and the section ends in Genesis 11:1. In order to note that this division of languages hinted at hadn't happened yet.
Then the narrative starts in Genesis 11:2 with a subject given as "masculine plural" translated as an unspecified "they" which need not refer to mankind, unlike the previous verse.
20:17 In Matthew one, at least three of four omitted kings can be seen as omitted for a reason: the three cursed generations after Athaliah.
If there is an actual parallel in Genesis 5 or 11, it would probably be:
And Arphaxad lived thirty-five years, and begot Sale
[Genesis 11:12]
Where the LXX has:
12 And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan. 13 And Arphaxad lived after he had begotten Cainan, four hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala; and Cainan lived after he had begotten Sala, three hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters, and died.
Now see this:
It is remarkable that, notwithstanding the omission of the name of Cainan from the Hebrew text, and the consequent general rejection of him by historians, there are more traditions preserved of him than of his son Salah. "The Alexandrine Chronicle derives the Samaritans from Cainan; Eustachius Antiochenus, the Saggodians; George Syncellus, the Gaspheni; Epiphanius the Cajani. Besides the particulars already mentioned, it is said Cainan was the first after the flood who invented astronomy, and that his sons made a god of him, and worshiped his image after his death. The founding of the city of Harran in Mesopotamia is also attributed to him; which, it is pretended, is so called from a son he had of that name." – Anc. Univ. Hist., vol. i, p. 96, note.
Quoted from The Patriarchal Age: or, the History and Religion of Mankind (1854), George Smith
Sounds like a good reason to omit him, if he existed.
21:00 Babel fits into the timeline if Peleg was born 401 or 531 after the Flood.
LXX without the second Cainan, as per Roman Martyrology, or standard LXX with him.
Archaeologically, Babel is carbon dated to 9500 to 8000 BC. For c. 40 years, though it covers 51 in my tables.
Yes, Babel is in Shinar, also known as Mesopotamia. Yes, Babel is the same name as Nebuchadnezzar's city.
This is a city sharing the name of a tea party famed one:
At the Dissolution of the Monasteries by Henry VIII during the English Reformation, Boston's Dominican, Franciscan, Carmelite, and Augustinian friaries—erected during the boom years of the 13th and 14th centuries—were all expropriated.
As you can imagine, this didn't involve offering fish more than just one cups of tea. But it also isn't the same place, even. There is an Atlantic between them.
21:16 "would have shown up clearly in the historical record"
Exactly what historical record?
Btw, Göbekli Tepe does show up in a cataclysm, starting the Neolithic / Agricultural revolution.
So, on that account clearly fits the bill. But as Göbekli Tepe was pre-preserved and deciphered writing, so was Nimrod's Babel. Just like the founding of Boston's friar convents was before the printing press. And before Publick Occurrences Both Forreign and Domestick in the other Boston.
22:01 David begat Solomon.
This is the normal meaning.
22:23 No ... 1) Adam didn't cease to head the covenant people at age 130 or 230. 2) Henoch never became head of the covenant people, since he was lifted up before his father died.
But, also, 3) even if you were right, that wouldn't prolong the timeline.
22:42 130 or 230 adds up with 105 or 205, regardless of whether it ends the times before Adam fathered Seth and Seth fathered Enosh, or it ends the time of Adam's covenant responsibility and than that of Seth's covenant responsibility.
As there has always been a covenant people, there are no gaps between these.
This is where your solution fails to accomodate standard dates from archaeology.
I'm usually for the Mass of Pope St. Pius V, not that said to be of "Pope Paul VI" but I have worshipped within the latter too, and I know by heart one line in Swedish:
"genom alla tider samlar du åt dig ett folk"
"Through all ages thou gatherest to thyself a people"
Unlike Islam or Mormonism, there is no time for a people of God to lapse before another is raised, but all generations from Abel to John on Patmos are included in the line that goes up to the New Covenant, to the Catholic Church.
Therefore there cannot be any gap between the 130 / 230 and the ensuing 105 / 205 years.
23:10 They do record biological birth.
500 years old reflects the iniquity Noah had to bear, either being deprived of earlier sons or being barred for unusually long from marrying.
Jesus said the last days would look like the days of Noah and St. Paul says the last days would include evil people who forbade (presumably not all, but the righteous) to marry.
I'm 57 and going on 58. I am unmarried and think we are in the last days.
[The following two comments have disappeared]
23:59 "same time, different cities"
Sumerian ideology believed in the unity of mankind. A reaction against Babel's cataclysm. A unity under one monarch (a bit like our world is likely to sadly see for 3 1/2 years). That's why, if they couldn't deny either of two parallel dynasties, they serialised them.
Egypt did the same, which gives sufficient room for cramming regnal years of Old and Mid Kingdoms to fit my carbon dates revision.
24:06 The Sumerian list maker was lying.
Instead of admitting that Nioppur and Lagash for instance were independent of each other, they pretended one had ruled the other before the other had ruled the one.
A horrible idea to put this move into the interpretation of Genesis 5 and 11 genealogies.
[Taking a pause now, before perhaps commenting more tomorrow]
Thursday, July 16, 2026
Answering Turek, WLC, Lennox (not the author of the video, who also included Ken Ham in it)
Young Earth VS Old Earth | Christians DEBATE the Age of the Earth
True Faith | 12 July 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6y0z2IVRU
0:54 If the speed of light hasn't changed, and the universe is very much less big*, the constant speed of light has no bearing on the Biblical chronology.
2:42 The initial creation happened before the light of day 1.
3:39 You are making the assumption trees grew, that's about as much of an unwarranted assumption as Adam having been a baby.
13:42 And if Lennox had asked Lundahl, "amanuensis Lundahl, what do you think of Galileo" ... I think I'd have answered what I should.
He was wrong.
14:21 No, the fixed earthers have not all disappeared.*
I'm still here. So is Sungenis.
Solange Herz was a bit earlier, and so was Crombette.
Pope Michael II is now, and Pope Michael I was to 2022.
* Fixed earth and universe not being all that big go together, via the "parallax" angle, which on Heliocentric views enter into a trigonometrically relevant triangle with 2AU.
Hannah Crews on Conversion
At the end she gets to an appeal to Catholics:
Why it is Difficult for Protestants to Convert to Catholicism THIS IS WHY!
Hannah Crews | 13 July 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CkwfohiEJY
13:59 Well catechised?
Exactly why I'm Young Earth Creationist and Geocentric.
They aren't all that central in and of themselves, but when you see what they connect to, they aren't optional either, i e Young Earth Creationism to Genesis 3, Genesis 3:15 to Marian dogma.
Geocentrism to proof of God visible since Adam and Eve (flagellum of the bacterium only very recently became visible to some), and to universe being limlited and an Empyrean heaven beyond, which is where Jesus went on Ascension, and so to the Eucharist and for that matter, via Distant Starlight problem the denial prejudices Young Earth Creationism.
Spidey Fallacy Two Debunks
Eric Manning's debunk on his channel Testify:
This Terrible Atheist Meme About the Gospels Must Stop
Testify | 16 July 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYULmDa_NSo
My own:
There is more to the answer than that.
When two friends of mine (well, at least one's a friend) visited NYC, I asked them to take a photo of the Daily Bugle building.
For some reason, they didn't.
Almost seems as if Daily Bugle were a made up institution ...
Meanwhile, Gospels and Acts (etc) mention the Church. Seems to have been documented in other resources too, including Josephus calling them a "tribe" ...
Real stories don't leave just imaginary institutions.
Fake stories either do that or add some bends and flourishes on existing ones. D.D.T. = Direction départementale des Territoires exists. But it never had one Edmond Fouvreaux. (Yes, I'm a fan of Signé Furax). Baker Street preexisted certain stories, but Conan Doyle invented 221B (it later became a real adress).
Fake origin stories don't explain real institutions.
- Alex Yordanov
- @alexyordanov6250
- That's what I am saying. Spiderman has multiple comics with different narratives that don't add up , have no date consistency, have many fictional celeberty characters and places, and many accounts contradicting it's otherwise massive events, as well as being explicitly stated by the writer as fiction and coming from source specifically from fiction writing .
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @hglundahl
- @alexyordanov6250 "as well as being explicitly stated by the writer as fiction"
Even if it weren't, it would have been taken as fiction by the first known audience (and the only one so far).
- Alex Yordanov
- @hglundahl I was just saying on top of everything. The point is that the Spiderman falacy can be used to disprove Napoleon and is nothing more than a slogan.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @alexyordanov6250 Indeed, on top of everything.
I've seen other disproofs of Napoleon, care to spell out this one?
- Alex Yordanov
- @hglundahl I was saying that you can use this falacy to disprove any historical event , I could simply say , well Napoleon attacked real places, but Spiderman also visited real places.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @alexyordanov6250 True.
The difference is, the original audience of Napoleon seems to have recalled him as a real person, the original audience of Spiderman as fiction.
That difference basically means, Gospels are historic, not fictional, as to basic genre.
This test is obviously not fine enough for divine authority, but it is fine enough for historicity on a basic level.
- Alex Yordanov
- @hglundahl
What do you mean,, Basic level " and what do you mean,,Not fit enough for devine athourity".
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @alexyordanov6250 Basic level = not yet ruling out error or lies. Just ruling out fiction, that's impossible if everyone from the first took it as history.
Not fit enough is not what I said, I said not fine enough.
What is however fine enough is the details of the story. Both to rule out lies and honest mistake and to establish the man who claimed to be God rose.
Relativism, No Thanks
This popular belief about religion is completely wrong.
Melissa Dougherty | 10 July 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgloRYsV-WU
6:02 That "wise raja" was called Gotthold Ephraim Lessing and the original of it was Nathan der Weise (Nathan the Wise).
He was a Freemason, a Spinozist and ... a Protestant from Upper Lausitz, in Saxony.
Halfway between Martin Luther and Deutsche Christen.
10:15 Note, "God is love" is necessarily true and only true and necessarily so, if God is a Trinity.
Sunday, July 12, 2026
To Honour St. Maria Goretti
Theologians ATTACK St Maria Goretti's Purity
Return To Tradition | 10 July 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO3BRQshk3c
I would say, the piece by Philippa Haase is simply attacking the "demands made on victims" by elevating St. Maria Goretti as a model.
It's a bit like priests freaking out over elevating St. John Nepomuk or Bl. Andrew Faulhaber as models of martyrdom rather than divulging the secret of confession.
I didn't actually see any direct attacks on St. Maria Goretti's virtue.
I would not see her as a martyr for consecrated virginity, in the sense that St. Barbara was, but she was martyred for wanting to stay a virgin up to marriage. If Protestants became Catholics, certain purity rings would be inscribed "SMGPFM"
Dear St. Maria Goretti, Martyr, and dear St. Alessandro Serenelli, Penitent, pray for me!
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