Showing posts with label History Hit. Show all posts
Showing posts with label History Hit. Show all posts

Sunday, September 8, 2024

Some Corrections About Medieval History


Medieval Historian Answers The Most Asked Questions About Medieval Life
History Hit | 19 Aug. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5S5m_LpTS0


0:56 In the Middle Ages, children in cities were generally going to at least elementary school, since the literacy revolution in the 1200's.

Grammar schools are actually a step beyond that, it implies you were learning Latin, here is what wiki had to say:

Although the term scolae grammaticales was not widely used until the 14th century, the earliest such schools appeared from the sixth century, e.g. the King's School, Canterbury (founded 597), the King's School, Rochester (604) and St Peter's School, York (627)[1][2] The schools were attached to cathedrals and monasteries, teaching Latin – the language of the church – to future priests and monks.


Parts of the future clerics were certainly younger sons to richer parents. But parts were also people from poorer classes whom the already extant clergy considered fit.

Obviously, the nobility shared the education.

george foreman
@georgeforeman1097
There were no public schools back then.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@hglundahl
@ In most countries in the High and Late Middle Ages, there were in the cities.


7:32 No, the hairline is further to the front.

Your arrow was where there was a limit between tightly held down hair and a big bulge of it all coming out ... (hairdressers will probably kill me if they read this comment, given my apparently unappreciative and certainly inaccurate terminology).

The big bulge is actually a head covering.



8:54 "If you could afford to waste cloth"

When pieces of cloth are sewn, some pieces that are left over are simply too small to use in sewing.

Dito when cloth gets worn.

Giving linen to paper mills or using left over cloth for sanitary purposes isn't really waste ... however, the man who could afford cloth in this situation was probably using cloth bought from several people ...

10:50 Poorly recorded ... not really. Both melodies and performance style are on the contrary very well recorded.

According to the reading of Farya Faraji, it was up to c. 1400 a bit closer to Near Eastern music than one might expect:

Bardcore & Neo-Medieval vs Actual Medieval Music
Farya Faraji | 28 June 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6_8ZEhmaGE


george foreman
"The vast majority of Medieval music has not survived the centuries because Medieval music notation was infrequent and inconsistent."

Hans Georg Lundahl
@georgeforeman1097 I don't know exactly where you are quoting that from, but while musical manuscripts from the Middle Ages are less numerous than later on, they are readable.

george foreman
@hglundahl that was a direct quote from jesus himself. Checkmate boii.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@ No, it was not.
11:04 We have both liturgical and secular music written down.

You may have thought of Goliards:

The Goliards were itinerant poet-musicians of Europe from the tenth to the middle of the thirteenth century. Most were scholars or ecclesiastics, and they wrote and sang in Latin. Although many of the poems have survived, very little of the music has. They were possibly influential—even decisively so—on the troubadour-trouvère tradition which was to follow. Most of their poetry is secular and, while some of the songs celebrate religious ideals, others are frankly profane, dealing with drunkenness, debauchery and lechery. One of the most important extant sources of Goliards chansons is the Carmina Burana.


But compare the Trouvères:

The trouvères and troubadours shared similar musical styles, but the trouvères were generally noblemen.[52] The music of the trouvères was similar to that of the troubadours, but was able to survive into the thirteenth century unaffected by the Albigensian Crusade. Most of the more than two thousand surviving trouvère songs include music, and show a sophistication as great as that of the poetry it accompanies.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_music
(my emphases in each quote)

13:41 Which capital was best, I would say Paris was lots better than London.

London had a few fires in Anglo-Saxon times and yet one in the time of John Lackland (who had permitted the reckless habit of building wooden shacks on London Bridge), and I think even one more before the turn of Modern Ages (when you have another fire in London in 1666).

Paris had no city fires in the Middle Ages. Toulouse had one, very late, houses were lost but lives weren't.

Grenfell Tower is also London, not Paris.

Un incendie dans un immeuble d'habitation a fait sept morts dans la nuit du mercredi 17 au jeudi 18 juillet 2024 à Nice (Alpes-Maritimes), ont annoncé les pompiers de la ville. C'est le plus grave incendie en France depuis celui du 9 août 2023 dans un gîte près de Colmar (Haut-Rhin), qui avait fait onze morts.


Grenfell, I think it was 77 ...

16:22 "but for a time, the Anglo-Saxons were Pagans before they were re-christianised"

You mean before England was rechristianised?

The Anglo-Saxons were Pagans when they arrived.

Possibly Mercia had a Pagan revival under Penda, but that was possible because they hadn't been thoroughly Christianised that far West yet.

Despite these apparent instances of warfare, relations between Penda and Oswiu were probably not entirely hostile during this period, since Penda's daughter Cyneburh married Alhfrith, Oswiu's son and Penda's son Peada married Alhflaed, Oswiu's daughter. According to Bede, who dates the events to 653, the latter marriage was made contingent upon the baptism and conversion to Christianity of Peada; Peada accepted this, and the preaching of Christianity began among the Middle Angles, whom he ruled. Bede wrote that Penda tolerated the preaching of Christianity in Mercia itself, despite his own beliefs:

Nor did King Penda obstruct the preaching of the word among his people, the Mercians, if any were willing to hear it; but, on the contrary, he hated and despised those whom he perceived not to perform the works of faith, when they had once received the faith, saying, "They were contemptible and wretched who did not obey their God, in whom they believed." This was begun two years before the death of King Penda.[62]


So, Mercian Anglo-Saxons only began to be Christianised in the time of Penda. You could of course argue they descended largely from Celts who had been Christians in Subroman times, before the Anglo-Saxons.

Penda was the last great pagan warrior-king among the Anglo-Saxons. Higham wrote that "his destruction sounded the death-knell of English paganism as a political ideology and public religion."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penda_of_Mercia

He died in 655. The reference to Higham goes:

Higham, The Convert Kings, pp. 218–219.9 Higham accepts that Penda acknowledged Oswald's supremacy, but points to what he calls "the apparent failure of Bernician Christianity to penetrate the central Midlands" as evidence against assuming a great deal of authority exercised by Oswald over the Mercians during this period.


19:08 Not just monks, but also people going to Mass (the bells would tell) or academic lectures (the bells would tell c. a quarter of an hour in advance).

Mechanic clocks are a late Medieval invention.

In 1283, a large clock was installed at Dunstable Priory in Bedfordshire in southern England; its location above the rood screen suggests that it was not a water clock.[36] In 1292, Canterbury Cathedral installed a 'great horloge'. Over the next 30 years, there were mentions of clocks at a number of ecclesiastical institutions in England, Italy, and France. In 1322, a new clock was installed in Norwich, an expensive replacement for an earlier clock installed in 1273. This had a large (2 metre) astronomical dial with automata and bells. The costs of the installation included the full-time employment of two clockkeepers for two years.[36]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock#Fully_mechanical

1283? Sorry, High Medieval. But I think the oldest survivng one is in Prague, and that one is Late MedievaL

Sorry again, Salisbury Cathedral:

The Salisbury Cathedral clock, built in 1386, is considered to be the world's oldest surviving mechanical clock that strikes the hours. [see above]


Prague is only third oldest, and it's the town hall, not the cathedral:

The clock was first installed in 1410, making it the third-oldest astronomical clock in the world and the oldest clock still in operation.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_astronomical_clock

22:26 Statistics on childbirth, check wikipedian entries for royalties.

I did find a few queens of France and related who died after their first or second child had been born or after a stillbirth. Not many, but even so.

A factor making it I think overall less risky was marrying earlier.

When a woman has her first child at 30, she depends a lot on modern hospitals. Maria Theresia was married at 18 going on 19, had her first child next year and went on to have a total of 16 children, of whom 10 survived her.

Another Holy Roman Empress, Mary of Spain, married just after her twentieth birthday, had her first child next year, had a total of ... also 16 children. The last daughter was born 1568 and she herself died 1603, 23 years after this daughter.

The wife of Lewis the Bavarian, also a Roman Emperor, married at 13 to 16 depending on the date of her birth, and had her first child next year, a total of ten children.

29:42 I wouldn't call an amount of wine obscene, unless it's at the consumption end in relation to too few persons.

Remember that monasteries sold wine and still do.

In Scotland or Scandinavia, you couldn't grow wine.

For Mass, you had to import it. Wine was (among other reasons for this one) one of the things that the Middle Ages actually did mass produce.

The infamous monk who's sipping the wine may simply have been doing his normal job of quality testing.

Or he may also have been a person who was portrayed as "an exemple not to follow" ...

Saturday, August 13, 2022

Medieval London - I think I'd prefer Paris (for more than one reason)


Dr. Eleanor Janega gives a good tour of London with comment on the Medieval sites of same places and their uses:

Life and Death in Medieval London With Dr Eleanor Janega
31st Jan. 2022 | History Hit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmyCnA7xC4A


First ten minutes, I am only enjoying instruction, but the things to comment on come too:

12:51 This seems to be a difference between HRE and England.

St. Thomas mentioned people not being put into captivity of slavery because of debt, according to the "laws of the Emperors" ... in Paris, he was certainly under a King, but I wonder if he didn't kind of count Two Sicilies (where he was from) as part of Holy Roman Empire ...

An indebted artisan would be put under some kind of constraints on what he could do with his money, and how big portion of it he had to use for payments, but he was basically required to stay in business until he had paid back.

When he didn't, the cessio bonorum (corresponds to getting broke) was at the request he put to the creditors and up to them to grant or refuse it, but they couldn't take the initiative.

Obviously, for a man who had done cessio bonorum instead of full payment, it was harder to start a new business than now after going broke.

21:59 "most cities" [were not self ruled or electing officials] - perhaps true for England, but very far from the truth in Holy Roman Empire or France

22:57 It so happens, election circumscriptions in the early XXth C. were still guild based in London.

Hilaire Belloc was part of the brewers' guild for elective purposes ... perhaps his favourite one, as it certainly would have been Chesterton's (and actually nearly was my grandfather's, though "brewers and distillers" in Sweden was actually a trade union) ...

24:32 Technically, the law [of Moses] said Jews could take interest from "goyim" - especially Babylonians and Canaaneans.

It's not clear they could also have taken interest from Egyptians and Edomites. These were in a nearby passage called "brothers" of Israel - Edomites, as Edom-Esau was the actual twin brother of Jacob-Israel, father of twelve patriarchs among whom Judah, and Egyptians, because they had stayed among them (mostly peacefully) while expanding from Beduin tribe to nation.

And that they considered they could take interest from Christians therefore means, they were viewing Christians as lower than Egyptians and Edomites.

Interest free loans - you borrow a bottle of wine, you give back a bottle of wine, no fee for the loan, you borrow 5 shillings (Medieval currency) you give back 5 shillings, also no fee for the loan, were obviously not forbidden, but these had to come from people having other sources of income than money-lending and were therefore rarer. Less easy to get by.

25:41 You said Jews were "accused" ... and I suppose you mean baselessly.

[confirmed by 25:50]

Take a look at what happened when a synagogue was besieged, I think in York. Adult Jews, from the Christians' side, could get out if they accepted baptism. The other ones, one intended to kill, but baptise their children.

There were adults who tried to get out, and they were killed. If you ask me, by the Jews inside, for "treason" ... but those were not the only killings, they also killed first women and children and then each other, Masada style.

Take a look at whether St. Richard of Norwich or Little St. Hugh of Lincoln could be of part Jewish descent, among great-grand-parents, and the child killings could be a kind of "execution for following strange gods" (counting Christianity as not worship of The Lord, on their part).

For St. Andrew of Rinn, I have a case for exonerating Jews, the uncle is a more probable culprit, but for St. Simon of Trent, the small Jewish community could have been one of the most bitterly Antichristian ones ... a doctor looked at the throat, the slit matched that of a Jewish butcher bleeding a sheep through the throat.

25:50 As to the "Artist's Impression of Jewish Blood Libel" - it seems to be the childkilling in Bethlehem, after Holy Family had fled - are Gospel narratives now also part of the "Blood Libel" to you?

26:39 It is interesting you say that Jews were only allowed to stay if they lent money ... this was not the case everywhere.

I suppose you refer to the Jew charter of William the Conqueror.

St. Lewis IX of France at a certain point expelled Jewish money lenders, but not Jews generally. He also expelled money-lenders from ... Piemonte? not sure, but some part of Italy. However, he couldn't do that to those of Cahors, as that was within his kingdom, they weren't foreigners.

In Carpentras, near Avignon, the Jewry clearly had something like parallel guilds to the Christians, they were basically a parallel and roughly complete economy, there were plenty of things to do even if you were not a money-lender. Leather-workers had their guilds? If so, they had two guilds in Carpentras, a Christian and a Jewish one ... one for the city, one for the Jewry. Or perhaps just one, in the Jewry, for both.

32:09 Ah, a sex worker could not pay tithe while still in business, though she could do so retroactively when out of it, but (near London) she could pay rent to that bishop .... just checked, no, the bishop of Winchester was on board with Henry VIII, it was the one of Rochester who died a Catholic martyr ...

It may be mentioned, in Paris, sex workers had their brothels in private houses, they weren't renting ground from the bishop of Paris - they didn't have to stay outside the city, but they did have to stay away from Churches (perhaps two blocks away?) and were obviously forbidden contraception.

"Here, it is the hairy hole that's beaten" according to one of the publicities outside a brothel.

I suppose, retiring from this business was more common in Paris than for the Winchester geese, poor gals ...