Saturday, August 9, 2025

Tolkien and Dante


Did Tolkien Really Call Dante "Petty"?
Ink and Fantasy | 9 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vDP_2OGlH0


I don't know in what way you think Dante was important for Catholicism.

He was important for expressing it in Italian as to eschatology, but thousands of priests were already doing so.

"Among the many celebrated geniuses of whom the Catholic faith can boast who have left undying fruits in literature and art especially, besides other fields of learning, and to whom civilization and religion are ever in debt, highest stands the name of Dante Alighieri, the sixth centenary of whose death will soon be recorded. Never perhaps has his supreme position been recognized as it is today. Not only Italy, justly proud of having given him birth, but all the civil nations are preparing with special committees of learned men to celebrate his memory that the whole world may pay honour to that noble figure, pride and glory of humanity."


I think "religion" here means "piety" rather than Catholicism as such. I cited In Praeclara Summorum, by the way. It's more to the point when discussing Dante, than when Dimond brothers use it about Geocentrism, quotemining one specific sentence in the concessive subjunctive.

I also think that the Latin superlatives translated as "highest" and "supreme" should be translated as "very high" ... it's mainly civilisation that's in debt, Christian civilisation in Italy.

And I venture to say that while the praise of the Divine Comedy and arguably also Italian of Dante are honest, they are also partly tactical, since Anticlericals were saying on the one hand that not appreciating Dante would be barbaric, and on the other hand, they were celebrating him for things like "De Monarchia" which was anti-Papal, a precursor, with Marsilius, of the infamous Kulturkampf a few decades previously endured by German faithful Catholics.

Tolkien obviously didn't care for being at odds with a Papal encyclical. Probably, his own feeling about Dante was a mixture of enjoyment and of the irritation he had here expressed.

5:05 Dante's Divine Comedy, as far as I can tell, is not religious allegory, but religious science fiction ("theology fiction" or "eschatology fiction" if you like). Same genre as "Pearl" which no doubt both inspired The Great Divorce and pleased Tolkien more than Dante, as per lack of pettiness.

To specify, if Dante disliked someone for political or personal reasons, he probably placed that someone in Hell or Purgatory (if he had died). It's as if Tolkien had named Shagrath and Ugluk some recogniseable English known person's name.

In fact, that's not just Dante. Michelangelo placed someone in Hell, that someone complained to the Pope who answered "there is no absolution from Hell" ....

ἀστροπελέκι
@Astropeleki
Dante also placed someone in Hell before he had passed away, because he had betrayed his guests and had them killed.

The soul of that specific damned explains that if someone commits such a heinous sin, their soul descends into hell before they're even dead.

ἀστροπελέκι
Oh wait, it's literally mentioned in the video, hahaha

Well, I guess it was worth mentioning the context of this specific "petty" representation.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@hglundahl
@Astropeleki It might have been a way to warn the guy, like in Michelangelo's case.


5:29 No, in the afterlife, people do NOT go from Hell to Purgatory.

As such a journey does not exist, Dante's work cannot be an allegory of that.

Also, while everyone in Purgatory goes to Heaven, they go from one specific place in Purgatory to one specific place in Heaven.

Again, what Dante writes is not an allegory for what in Catholic theology doesn't even occur.*

* Usually. The Comedy in fact describes a kind of sight-seeing of other people's fates, which could occur as an exception.

Viking Age Norse Women


The truth about Viking women will surprise you
Bjorn Andreas Bull-Hansen | 9.VIII.2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl0yR09XnS0


2:35 At least for Sweden, I would say that Norse women in the Viking age had no right to inheritance, at least not unless it was per testament and at least about capital.

Prior to Magnus Ladulås (son of Birger Jarl, a Crusader to Finland, of the dynasty previously mostly called "Folkungar" and now the "house of Bjelbo" ... Bjelbo-ätten), the rule was "gånge hatt till och hufva från" — to the hat and away from the bonnet. He changed it to "syster ärfve hälften mot brodern"* (so, 1/1 to male heirs first, later with a brother and a sister 2/3 to male heir, 1/3 to female and so on depending on number of heirs in total).

I suppose this did not refer to items of clothing or to looms and spindles.

Summers Idyll
@SummersIdyll
Most societies are patrilineal and practice primogeniture...even if the woman was smarter, wiser, more capable...a deranged younger male would be given the crown or inheritance...for instance. All that mattered was male or female.

I don't understand it, other than, they feared she would be swayed into a marriage in a rival family or something, or over powered by brute force.

Yet in history women are among the more effective rulers. We can all think of some probably.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@hglundahl
@SummersIdyll "primogeniture"

Only for land or political power.

"Yet in history women are among the more effective rulers."

Efficiency is not all one looks for in a ruler.**

The last ruler of independent Wales was a woman, she lost. Not effective. Dito for Mary Queen of Scots. Elisabeth Tudor was taken hostage by Protestant interests, those of the Cecils, and her apparent efficiency was a misfortune for England.

But these women were pretty few. The 18th C. was relatively frequent in them, in Austria and Russia. I think 3 in total. A fourth in Portugal was kept in a kind of wardship as a doctor declared her insane.


4:42 The past is not just a relief from grey and boring, but from things like Covid mandates and "taking responsibility" for people one tactically presents as incapable of doing that for themselves and from things like compulsory school (it came to Sweden in 1842, or not really, homeschooling was still allowed if the parents were competent for it, that was pushed back in Social Democrat decades.)

8:48 Speaking of modern times as "feudalism 2.0" is not very respectful of actual feudalism.

9:51 ερρωσο και συ!

* Sister shall inherit half of the brother's lot.

** I had written, "in a women" and when trying to correct this, I found out my comment had been deleted. The screenshot doesn't function, so I can't show you.

Is It Too Late for the Three State Solution I Proposed?


Here is where I made the proposal, years ago:

I have written on Jews and their relations with others (the first a linea, peace plan for judea, samaria and galilea ... the post collects two different posts from 2007 on FB).


Let’s not FREE PALESTINE! 7 good reasons why we shouldn’t free Palestine.
travelingisrael.com | 8 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RNBdBBx19c


1:28 You know the owner of Guiness is part Jewish and pro-Israel?

6:30 Yes, pretty interesting.

Given the homogeneity of the population, perhaps Isaias 11 was after all fulfilled 2000 years ago?

7:45 You may have some inkling on why I would prefer three states over two.

A Christian, a Jewish and a Muslim state. Obviously, Christian Palestinians are not the most loyal to Hamas.

No borders, the distinction between Palestinian and Israeli Arab replaced by that between Christian and Muslim.

10:34 I've spoken up for the Uygurs.

Not often, they are not as often in the news. And in Palestine, though they are fewer, my main loyalty is the Christian ones.

It may be considered anti-Semitic to some that with Jewish ancestry, I insist on being Roman Catholic and refuse to become a Jew. And it may be more properly considered pro-Jewish, if I want friends of my family and perhaps family of friends who live as Israelis to not partake in crimes against Gaza. And not to promote lies, like you did when explaining starving children with "genetic diseases" that don't exist (other ones may exist, but that's another matter).

I would be very happy to not have heard Israeli Jews use language about Palestinians like some guys in the 1920's and early 1930's (before those camps) used about East European Schtettls.

But obviously, the situation is not very ideal for Jews in Western countries either. Ask Katie Halper about it. She has more news than I to provide on that side.

10:49 I spoke up for the Rojavas, the Kurds of Syria, back when both Islamic State and Bashir al Assad were cruel.

I said they were our rational best allies in the region.

That said, PKK has often been cruel to Assyrian Christians, if you go over the frontier to Turkey.

11:00 I've spoken up for Druz and Christians.

Less need to do so for Alawites, all of France is their allies anyway.

11:13 However, I will mention, Druz, Christians, perhaps even Alawites, would have been better off, if the West had supported the Rojava. A k a Kurds with some others.

I Cor 13:8 Doesn't Prove Cessationism, see verse 12; St. Paul is Not Talking of Current Church History


Does the Bible really say that spiritual gifts will cease?*
Spirit & Truth With Austin Nix | 9 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keWwXqMwYtI


I was fortunately never (at least not very explicitly even in the Lutheran interlude) a Cessationist.

Part of my point in converting was discovering that Protestant Reformers were Cessationists.

Spirit & Truth With Austin Nix
@Austin_Nix
I understand where you are coming from. I was saved later in life, but my first couple years were really heavily influenced by the hardcore reformed communities. And truly, I am very thankful for it because it kept me grounded, but I've come to land in some different places in other aspects of the faith which is okay :-) God bless you richly in Jesus Name.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@hglundahl
@Austin_Nix Catholicism is not just "a place" but "Rome sweet home" ...

Thank you, and welcome to swim the Tiber.


* Retranslated from automatic translation: La Bible dit-elle vraiment que les dons spirituels prendront fin ?

Thursday, August 7, 2025

I think an actual Inquisitor actually represents the Catholic Church


In other words the layman's club called Catholic Truth (not sure if affiliated to Sheed and Ward's Catholic truth guild) here did some overkill. It's true he wasn't executed for translating the Bible, in Vilvoorde an English Bible was practically irrelevant, English wasn't as big a language yet, but he had a Church judge prior to being delivered to "the secular arm" (i e the State), so, the video got a like because Kate is pretty, not because Bryan Mercier is highly competent.


Did the Catholic Church Really Kill Tyndale?
Catholic Truth | 7 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shFrkLLcB-0


1:24 Henry VIII never was a Protestant. He was in communion with Lutherans, but he never was one himself. He died as a Catholic believer (on most of not all accounts) in Schism against the Pope.

While he was the one opposing Tyndale's translation, Tyndale was actually burned by the Spanish Inquisition in the Netherlands, in Vilvoorde, modern Belgium, for an actual crime against the faith. He misinterpreted Romans 3. The Tyndale society carefully preserves and has translated the text of Jacobus Latomus, and his, I think third, refutation of Tyndale.* Had Tyndale recanted, he could have lived.

Vince Giangiacomo
Verge63
Henry VIII burned Tyndale for denouncing his divorce

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@hglundahl
@Verge63 No ... even a quick wikipedia check would find you he was burned in Vilvoorde, where Henry VIII had absolutely no authority and where his divorce was not a very well looked on event.

Charles V had absolutely no motive to take revenge on a man for dissing the divorce of Henry VIII, of which his relative Catherine of Aragon was a victim.


2:20 His Inquisitor actually gave him opportunity to continue translation efforts. I think it's Trent Horn I have that from.

According to CSL (who considered him a saint, a martyr, paradoxically along with St. Thomas More, in his Latin correspondence with an Italian priest, I think), Douay Rheims actually took hints from Tyndale, no less than King James took some from Douay Rheims. The most egregious mistranslation in KJV, Matthew 6:7, is not from the Tyndale Bible, but from the Geneva Bible via the Bishops' Bible. Calvin had a bee in the bonnet against repetitive prayers.

4:52 It would be fairer to say that Charles V took a tip from Henry VIII, and had him arrested.

James Latomus was his judge, and he was an Inquisitor in full communion with Rome. I know, technically it isn't the Inquisitor who pronounces the death penalty, he functions as a coroner, a judge of enquiry finding guilty or not guilty, while a judge of the state pronounces the death penalty after he was found guilty.

The real irony is when some Protestants who believe in Lordship Salvation uphold Tyndale, since his heresy specifically was a free grace message, a total denial of Lordship Salvation.

Obviously, Lordship Salvation looks differently in Catholics and those Evangelicals who believe it, but nonetheless ...

Note:

* My bad, actually first of the three. I cite it in this article, in a fact box below an intro with bold:

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: A Good Video on Inquisition, with Some Quibbles of Mine
https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-good-video-on-inquisition-with-some.html


The Tyndale Society still has a page with Latomus' text:

Jacob Latomus His Three Books of Confutations Against William Tyndale
https://web.archive.org/web/20080517104730/http://www.tyndale.org/Reformation/1/latomus1.html

Wednesday, August 6, 2025

Genetically Modified Sceptic Has a Point


He also has less of a point on other issues, as he wants to replace "Fundamentalist" with "religious extremist" in the broader sense outside Evangelical Fundamentalists who actually have sth directly to do with The Fundamentals or Chicago Statement of Faith.

Calling it, in general "religious extremism" is obviously a Commie or Atheist move. It's more of a prescriptive "don't do that, it's extreme, normal people don't do that" than descriptive. It's clearly an exonomym from people regarding themselves for some reason as non-religious.


"Fundamentalist" DOESN'T mean that!
Genetically Modified Skeptic | 6 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt0JHLhjadY


1:33 You mean* the polar opposite of Evangelical Fundamentalism.

A Lutheran or Catholic "Fundamentalist" in the broader sense would obviously not rely on Scofield and therefore not necessarily be Zionist.

I quit Zionism over, as a Catholic seeking out fellow "Fundamentalists" (the actual term would be Traditionalists, Lefebvrians or ... as to laymen ... "faithful of the SSPX" ... SSPX as such is just the priests and religious: there are other Trad groups, like Conclavism too). A man outside St. Nicolas du Chardonnet sold a tract saying Palestinians are Israelites, which is correct on purely historic grounds.

Not sure exactly where the "Fundie" Augustana synod or Missouri synod stand among Lutherans on this issue, I was a sympathiser with them and without direct access too short to find out, but mainstream Swedish Lutherans have a connection to the Haredim (a modernist "priestess" mentioned she had been Sabbath goy and lit cigarettes for some), since Lutherans nowadays believe in cosplaying the OT as part of theological and sometimes catechetic education. A certain Greta Thunberg whose grandfather or greatgrandfather was a Swedish clergyman is famous for not being Zionist.

2:00 Your term "religious extremism" is also used about drastically different groups and on top of that more a term of rejection than of description.

It comes from a place I could describe as "religious extremism" in the religion of Evolutionism (which in its pure form, without syncretism with Christianity or Islam is called Atheism). But thanks for clearing up a Catholic Trad, an Evangelical actual Fundie, a Haredi Jew, a Salafi Muslim are NOT the same.

* He had mentioned Haredim often opposing Zionism.

Censored at Good Sense Question


First, my comment was immediately censored. When I tried to add another comment under it, it couldn't happen, meaning the comment must be gone.



Second, here is the video short or the link to it, and after it my comments, with the last § added afterwards, and impossible to add under the video, the "short" I mean:

@fryrsquared
L'Atlantide pourrait-elle se trouver dans la mer du Nord ? (Bien sûr que non, mais quelque chose ...*
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Afwxk4peYys


Do you have a source for the skull being Neanderthal?

Could you have misread "Netherlands"?

Because, on my creationist view, the sinking of Doggerland is post-Babel and Neanderthals are pre-Flood.

On the Evolutionist view, the skull is 13 500 years old** and Neanderthals died out at the latest in 28 000 BP (Goreham Cave, Gibraltar, only tools have been found and the material so dated is charcoal).

The actual Neanderthal Krijn is 50 000 to 70 000 years ago, on the Evolutionary version of carbon dates, and was found in Zeeland, not in Doggerland.***

* Unfortunately, the title is automatically translated to French bc. I watch from France. I'd translate back: Could Atlantis be below the North Sea? (Of course not, but something ...)

** North Sea: Oldest human remains and oldest art from the North Sea
Rijksmuseum van Oudheden | 9 February 2018
https://www.rmo.nl/en/news-press/news/oldest-human-remains-and-oldest-art-from-the-north-sea/


*** Face to face with Krijn: Dutch Neanderthal now has a face
Rijksmuseum van Oudheden | 7 September 2021
https://www.rmo.nl/en/news-press/news/the-first-dutch-neanderthal-now-has-a-face/

"You Can't Read the Bible on Your Own" ... Is That Precise?


How to Study the Bible as a Layman
Decrevi Determined to be Catholic @thecatholicman | 5 août 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS6a_FNmucA


0:10 I've heard from Robert Sungenis, the textual apparatus and cultural explanations and whatnot are top notch BUT it unfortunately includes the modernist view of Genesis 1 through 11 in the comments.

6:59 Ah yes, in France (and presumably Belgium and Switzerland) there is a Magnificat in French.

14:16 "you can't interpret the Bible on your own"

Magisterial and pre-Vatican II source, please?

1) You can't interpret prophecy of the OT without knowing the NT is certain: the Ethiopian Eunuch.
2) You should take care not to read Scripture as unlearned and unstable (St. Peter singled out some passages in St. Paul's Epistles)
3) If you interpret the Bible on your own and come up with something contrary to what the Church hath held and now holds or also to the consensus of the fathers, you are wrong.
4) If a whole set of communities have as basic principle,_everyone_ interprets the Bible on his own, it can't achieve unity.

I've featured: Acts, II Peter, Trent session IV, Pius XI (was it Mortalium Animos?).

BUT: none of these says in so many words that no Christian can interpret the Bible on his own. They just say there are pitfalls if he does and passages he won't get. Not that he absolutely can't. Christians are obviously now in a better position to interpret OT prophecy because we have the NT.

Now, let me be precise. In a matter where a Christian who already is a Catholic (I've converted) actually has access to the interpretation of the Church (over centuries and two millennia, as per Trent IV), he cannot on his own say "no, I'll interpret it in the opposite way" ... Ephesians 2 verses 8 to 10, notice I said 10, not 9, indicate justification is not from good works prior to justification, but involves signing up for good works. If I tried to deny this aspect, relying on a common Protestant interpretation of Ephesians 2 verses 8 and 9, and then tried to gloss over verse 10, for one thing, it wouldn't be on my own, I would be overrelying on Protestants instead of believing my own better judgement, but for another thing, in such a context NOT relying on the Church would obviously be fatal ... as well as not common to a conclusion agreeing with the Church, if we happen to read that without access to Catholic doctrine.

Now, the Catholic Church has NOT dogmatised how Genesis lines up with archaeology. That's the ONE item where I've actually done some original interpretation, notably identifying Nimrod's Babel of Genesis 10 and more story details 11 with Göbekli Tepe, I'm highly confident, I have not spoken against the position that the Church hath held and holds, as well as, I double-checked, the interpretation of the text is not uniformly "one vertical piece of ground fixed architecture." In Postilla in libros Geneseos, St. Thomas (or a contemporary, but I think it's a youth work of his) suggests the reading "city wall with many towers forming a skyline" rather than "skyscraper" ... this means, the idea that Nimrod was intending a rocket, but incompetent, and that God stopped him to give Wernher von Braun a chance is NOT going against universal tradition.

Also, I'm very well aware that the spiritual reward of reading Genesis is not acquiring a carbon 14 conversion table, but I'm equally aware that Genesis 1 to 11 are historic fact, theologically, and scientifically, that if one can date an item with organic matter independently of the carbon date, that functions as a calibration of the carbon date. I think a historic overview with archaeological support is very helpful when the historic truth of Genesis 1 to 11 is under attack. As I've heard that Study Bible does attack the historic reliability of those chapters. Obviously the older Haydock comment (also Catholic, c. 100 years older than Scofield's ineptitudes) doesn't attack it.

Tuesday, August 5, 2025

I Prefer Per Engdahl over Fridtjuv Bergh


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Defending Connor's Honour, So Far (And One Comment,15, Was Censored as I Corrected It) · Friendly Atheist Took On Connor (part I) · I Prefer Per Engdahl over Fridtjuv Bergh · New blog on the kid: In Response to Doug Wilson Who Responded to Caleb Campbell (pastor)

This Recording Might Get Me Cancelled...
Metatron's Academy | 5 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybM7poP7sTg


6:02 Indeed, not a one to one in every language.

I would consider the word Fascist has in Eastern Europe come to be a euphemism for NSDAP possibly along with Ustashi. Two versions I abhor.

I think that in some parts, notably of the English speaking world (if not Mehdi Hasan), one is more aware of Mussolini, Franco, Dollfuss and von Schuschnigg. And some would extend it beyond technical dictators, like both US and the Swedish Fascist Per Engdahl would count Perón as Fascist. Some in the US count Olof Palme as Fascist (I recall that was the case with the late Lyndon LaRouche), while Per Engdahl has a more insider perspective. There is a man who served as liaison between Per Engdahl and the Social Democratic government, which is how the Social Democrats came to embrace some of the basics of Corporativism, like Employers and Employees are not naturally born to enmity. In Sweden the practical solution was different from le corporazioni (which means sth pretty different from US American corporations).

12:13 No. Not all his W. All his digraph WH.

These were distinct, like in Swedish "hvete" (wheat) from "veta" (know), though the distinction was lost centuries ago, most or all dialects. Mean-WH-ile some few dialects retain the distinction between the W-sound (both "hvete" and ""veta") and the V sound (like "sof" and "sofva") spelled F or before vowels FV.

There is obviously a huge difference between a linguistic change converging three sounds and a change of orthography imposed by the government, like scrapping HV, F and FV in 1906, flouting the "Caesar non supra grammaticam" principle. Other sounds, those with the main spellings J, TJ and SJ retain more than one spelling. The reform was totally illogical, and administrative overreach.

14:53 Gilbert Keith Chesterton was on a campaign against Oriental religions, specifically Islam and even more Hinduism and Buddhism.

This could explain why some in English associate the term with this campaign for Catholicism vs Oriental religions and manners.

In a poem that was meant to insult his employer (and succeeded to give him the sack), when it came to "cocoa" (he was employed in the cocoa press), he started his review with a comparison to previous item:

"tea, although an Oriental
is at least a gentleman" ...


Hope Connor James Estelle follows his example and becomes independent in media ... I'm not sure I like all his policies, but probably some, like he probably would want more affordable housing. It was a pretty big thing under Franco, and, well, I suppose Il Duce too.

17:42 I don't think "core" for "corps" is the first misspelling in the subtitles.

It's a common phenomenon. Computers can't think or understand.

An online page of the Latin Mass martyrology was obviously automatically scanned. Here is St. James:

Sancti Jacobi Apostoli, qui exstitit beati Joannis Evangelistae frater; et, prope festum Paschae ab Herode Agrippa decollatus, primus ex Apostolis coronam martyiii percepit. Ejus sacra ossa, ab Hierosolymis ad Hispanias hoc die translata, et in ultimis earum finibus apud Gallaeciam recondita, celeberrima illarum gentium veneratione, et frequenti Christianorum conctirsu, religionis et voti causa illuc adeuntium, pie coluntur.


conctirsu is obviously a misscan for concursu.

18:25 Yes, it very much did happen in French. Napoleone Buonaparte had as French nickname "le petit caporal" ... the change probably happened after Corporal was borrowed from French into English, German and diverse Scandinavian languages.

In French "corporal" is used for a liturgic vessel.

Liturgic textile, my bad.*

18:43 In English, "corps" is a recent loan from French, meaning, the last two letters are as silent as they are in French.

* The article had a photo of the paten on the corporal, and I forgot paten was the word for the vessel.

A Majority of 8.8 Million Scientists Does Not Equal Truth


Israelis: Do you believe in evolution?
Corey Gil-Shuster | 19 March 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DwvdjWF5t8


3:07 The scientists around the world are 8.8 million. Not all of them believe in Evolution. Not all of them believe in Heliocentrism.

It's about the population of Sweden, and Swedes sometimes believe very odd things, but, not all of them.

I left Sweden.

7:27 Young Earth Creationists generally don't deny that.

Give we all descend from Adam and Eve, some are black and some are very pale, such things had to happen.

Doesn't mean hedgehogs and cats had common ancestors.

9:01 Have you checked the theory of a Common Designer?

9:17 You cannot pressure change to involve gains of function, like human language would be.

Pressured change generally means less information (including for the mosquitos) or even extinction.

Israelis:
CR CR CR CR NE NE EV EV EV EV EV EV EV
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13

4/13 Creationist
2/13 Neutral
7/13 Evolutionist

Palestinians: Do you believe in evolution?
Corey Gil-Shuster | 18 Nov. 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYiSMpC2fes


Palestinians
CR CR CR CR CR CR NE NE
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08

3/4 Creationist
1/4 Neutral

Seems all of them were Muslims, can I hope Christian Palestinians also reject this evil tenet?

Monday, August 4, 2025

Intellectual Fraud, Antichristian: John Davis


Christianity is the Deadliest Religion of History (Here are the Statistics!)*
The Recovering Catholic | 3 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrYP1UkndQ


Antipope Bergoglio had so much undue respect for Anticatholics, that him lapping up Anticatholic propaganda is no big news.

"Wiped out" ...

Nahuatl 1.7 million in Mexico, smaller number of speakers among Nahua immigrant communities in the United States (2020 census)
It's relative language Nawat has only 500 indigenous speakers, + 3000 learners, but they are of the ethnicity Pipil, 11,100, as well as Nicaraos, 20,000 +.

Quiché (language of the Mayas)
1.1 million (2019 census) ... and probably some more in the other country (spoken both in Mexico and Guatemala, the census was arguably only in one of the countries).

Aymara
1.7 million (2007–2014) (probably different censuses, official language in more than one country)

Quechuan languages (yes, more than one)
7.2 million

Plus, if you want to refer to the drastic lowering of American indigenous populations the century following the Conquista, most of it was due to smallpox, and that was not deliberately spread by contaminated blankets, like US Americans later did, it's just that Spaniards didn't realise it was much deadlier for the indigenous who had a weaker immune system.

To compare, the biggest language North of Rio Grande, number 24 of Indigenous languages, is Navajo with 170,000 speakers. Second biggest North of Rio Grande, number 36 overall, is Cree, 96,000.

Number 42 is the third largest, but non-English settlers, Greenlandic had Danes as colonisers. 46 overall is 4th largest North of Rio Grande, Ojibwe, also known as Chippewa. So, the 46 largest native languages of the Americas involve one in Denmark, three in Anglo countries, and 42 where Spain was the coloniser. And the single largest, Guaraní, also where Portugal was coloniser. Or became, by a border revision. If you have seen the film Mission, you will know that the transfer from Spain to the Portuguese realm of Pombal, Enlightened philosopher and PM, was bad news for Guaraní speakers back then.

2:28 Inter caetera certainly gave permission to conquer, but NOT to enslave. It concerned the division of the new discoveries.

Dum diversas certainly gave the Portuguese permission to enslave kingdoms and duchies of Africa. More precisely, to reduce to perpetual slavery. This meant giving lifetime, and pretty certainly didn't mean for the whole population, but for Muslim kings and dukes, the Pope didn't bother to use Arabic titles, and staff of their armies, judges and administrations, which had been engaged in slave trade against Christian captives, with no remorse.

Now, if someone gets lifetime in the US, he usually doesn't marry, if he does, the children don't stay with him in prison. If someone got perpetual slavery back then, he was probably allowed to keep one of the wives he had, or, if unmarried, to marry. The children also became slaves, not because of the papal sentence, but because of the principle that who's born to slave parents is a slave. Normally, among Europeans before Slavery was abolished (already the case in 1452, most countries), the children who hadn't committed crimes themselves or their children would be pretty likely to be freed, sooner or later, depending on the generosity of the master. Unfortunately, as racial differences make for less individualised perception, this didn't happen quite that much with Black Slaves of the Portuguese. But that wasn't the plan of Pope Nicholas V. He only considered that a kadi who had helped to give Christian slaves extra whippings or castration because of refusal to become Muslims had deserved to be himself a slave. Obviously, the Portuguese were not content with the slaves they could obtain this fashion, they also bought slaves from African kingdoms which they didn't think they should then and there conquer. Which Dum Diversas had not authorised.

So, the papacy basically shrugged the shoulders about Portuguese misapplication of Dum diversas, but when Spain conquered, newer bulls made sure to NOT make the same mistake with "Indians."

The Recovering Catholic
@therecoveringcatholic
So you're justifying the past?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@hglundahl
@therecoveringcatholic Obviously yes.

Of the papacy. Not totally of Portugal, different story.


2:53 Missionary enforcement hardly resulted in all that much death. On the Catholic side, that is.

If you take the one in Mexico, the many deaths in the taking of Tenochtitlan were due to the conquering army being composed by very few Spaniards and vastly more numerous indigenous allies, who weren't Christians yet.

Disease was not the fault of Christianity. Both Christianity and disease came with Spaniards, but for Spaniards, smallpox wasn't normally deadly. It hadn't been so for the Africans meeting the Portuguese either (less sure of the Guanches).

The Recovering Catholic
The spread of Catholicism brought the disease which killed many but what I stated in this video was accurate the numbers were not about to see they were about slaughters.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@therecoveringcatholic I'm actually not into the part of the video where you are citing slaughters.

The taking of Tenochtitlán was exceptionally huge as a slaughter and mainly due to not yet Christian allies of the Spaniards.


3:26 "America was formed by people running away from Catholicism"

Where so? Latin America was formed by Catholics. Québec and the original Louisiane were formed by Catholics. Spanish and Portuguese came as Catholics. English didn't come as Catholics, but neither did they have Catholics persecuting them in the mother country.

In 1848, some immigrants came who had failed rebellions against Catholic régimes, but arguably as many if not more who had failed rebellions against Protestant régimes. A Sicilian fleeing then would flee from a Catholic régime in Sicily. But a Saxon fleeing then would flee from a Lutheran or already Evangelisch régime in Saxony (Karl May was born that year, btw). And Irish arriving such times was pretty likely a Catholic fleeing a manmade starvation enforced by Protestants.

The Mayflower were people who were not running away from Roman Catholicism, but from High Church Anglicanism, and to the Netherlands. However, they left the Netherlands, no longer running away, to be alone among themselves, to avoid assimilation to Dutch Protestants whom they considered generally too worldly.

3:55 Walking Purchase, 1737. That's when the Lenape were starting to lose ground. John and Thomas Penn were responsible, they had not fled to avoid persecution, they were the heirs of William Penn. And William Penn had been decent to the Lenape, allowing the two populations to live together, well, not same villages or blocks, but basically side by side.

Not sure how many Germans who would be fleeing from Germany persecuted. Since 1648, a man persecuted for his religion simply had to leave to a place where his religion was in power. Perhaps a few Anabaptists.

Also not sure how many Huguenots would be fleeing to that area. But they weren't fleeing from the Inquisition, but from the French King. It wasn't the Church that wanted them converted or exiled, it was a people who recalled the Wars of Religion. Precisely as even more the two weeks from St. Bartholomew's Day in 1572. Coligny was a war criminal, who had hanged peasants for defending priest and sacrament.

4:15 100,000s tortured or executed as heretics.

Well, those who were just tortured but not executed would vastly outnumber those who were executed.

If it had been executed, I just did the maths for 250,000 by 700 years = 357 per year. In actual fact, most of the time, far fewer. So, I think the total is bogus too.

4:18 "burned as witches, early Protestants"

Well, up to Salem, they were far likelier to burn real or supposed witches than Catholics were, even if the Catholics had a temporary headstart.

4:22 Gnostics, Cathars ... well, back in their day, burnings would excede 357 per day.

Take a fair look at what they were teaching and how they were practising it before you bemoan them as "innocent victims" ...

Scientists, even Galileo.

The single scientist who got in real trouble but didn't get burned was Galileo. The main target in 1616 had been the priest Foscarini, who had the sense not to insist. Bruno was burned, 1600, by the same Inquisitor who handled Foscarini and Galileo, St. Robert Bellarmine ... but Bruno was more burned for things resembling Hinduism than for "science" (which Heliocentrism isn't anyway, unless you add "falsely so called").

4:30 WHAT?

"You 4:23 know, in 1986, the Catholic Church 4:26 forgave Galileo for the world not being 4:29 flat"


You are either a liar or a nincompoop.

The one revision of Galileo I'm aware of is 1992, when Antipope Wojtyla said Galileo was right. If there had been any kind of revision in 1986, prior to that, under the same Antipope, I'm not aware of that. But the issue was never flat or round. The Catholic Church never taught the earth was flat. She did teach, and uphold against Galileo, that Geocentrism is true. Geocentrism is not synonymous to the world being flat, it's synonymous to Earth being the centre of the world. Immobile, while the visible parts of the Universe revolve around us each day.

As to "not being flat" ... the author of Inter caetera was highly well aware of it. The trial of Galileo didn't spark mass refugee crises from Italy or Spain, but it did become an added argument when Huguenots going away from France wanted to be received as refugees highly in danger ... and when descendants of the Huguenots claimed (informal) privilege in Belfast and in Berlin.

4:46 You are promoting a dishonesty as big as pretending it took the Church centuries to decide that women had souls.

The real story behind that one (heavily promoted by Freemasons and their dupes) is that on a council locally in France someone was asking "can a woman be called 'homo' " because in his way of speaking Latin, just as in many men's way of speaking English, and the gloss "man" the gloss had started to take on the meaning of "adult male" ... the answer was "yes, Jesus is "filius hominis" because He is "filius Mariae" but Mary was a woman, so, yes, a woman can be called 'homo' ".

They changed the council from local to Nicaea because, either it was the only one they knew of, or, for the deception they wanted, a local one wouldn't do, it had to be central authority or equivalent.

The Church has never taught that women don't have souls, or aren't human or that the earth is flat.

4:58 No, it was not heresy to say the world was round.

You are either lying or repeating a lie. The "deconstruction" community seems to be a very sectarian one, whichever it is.

The Recovering Catholic
bye bye

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@therecoveringcatholic Feel free to blind yourself ...


5:12 If you look up Matthew 28:16 to 20, it was pretty clear that the true Church would always be along.

That pretty much rules out any "Church" or split rich slew of "churches" that wasn't even around in 1500.

5:25 Which Inquisition?

Ah, the Spanish one. Nordisk Familjebok, a Swedish 19th C. reference work says 341 000 prosecuted and 31 000 killed.

However, more recent research seems to disagree.

García Cárcel estimates that the total number prosecuted by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000; applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560–1700—about 2%—the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death. Nevertheless, some authors consider that the toll may have been higher, keeping in mind the data provided by Dedieu and García Cárcel for the tribunals of Toledo and Valencia, respectively, and estimate between 3,000 and 5,000 were executed.[202] Other authors disagree and estimate a max death toll between 1% and 5%, (depending on the time span used) combining all the processes the inquisition carried, both religious and non-religious ones.[153][203] In either case, this is significantly lower than the number of people executed exclusively for witchcraft in other parts of Europe during about the same time span as the Spanish Inquisition (estimated at c. 40,000–60,000).[202]


202) Data for executions for witchcraft: Levack, Brian P. (199). The Witch-Hunt in Early Modern Europe (2nd ed.). London and New York: Longman. ISBN 978-0582080690. OCLC 30154582. And see Witch trials in Early Modern Europe for more detail.

But we were looking for ... According to García Cárcel, one of the most active courts—the court of Valencia—employed the death penalty in 40% of cases before 1530, but later that percentage dropped to 3%

García Cárcel (1976), p. 39, García Cárcel, Ricardo (1976). Orígenes de la Inquisición Española. El Tribunal de Valencia, 1478–1530. Barcelona.

Classed as a revisionist book, but probably correct. Now, "before 1530" doesn't mean 1234 to 1530. It means 1478 to 1530. 52 years.

1234 was the Inquisition in South France, a different story.

A council in Tours in 1164, presided over by Pope Alexander III, ordered the confiscation of a heretic's goods. Of 5,400 people interrogated in Toulouse between 1245 and 1246, 184 received penitential yellow crosses (used to mark repentant Cathars), 23 were imprisoned for life, and none were sent to the stake.


Pegg, Mark Gregory (2001). The Corruption of Angels: The Great Inquisition of 1245–1246. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press. p. 126. ISBN 0-691-00656-3.

5:32 The Crusades death toll estimated 1 to 3 million ...

John Shertzer Hittell said "1 million" ... he lived December 25, 1825 – March 8, 1901.
Fredric Wertham said "1 million" and was a shrink. Probably just repeated John Shertzer Hittell. Unless the Fredric Wertham who did that estimate was a different person altogether. If so, I can't find him, I just found the shrink who claimed comic books damaged people.
Charles Mackay said "2 millions" ... Europeans. In other words, killed by Muslims. Scottish poet, 27 March 1814 – 24 December 1889.
Matthew White "3 millions" He was a librarian and wrote The Great Big Book of Horrible Things.

Now, where did I get these names?

Death Estimates for the Crusades, a blogpost by Andrew Holt, Ph.D. – History, Religion, and Foreign Affairs. He gave a caveat though:

Provided below are various death estimates for the crusades to the east roughly covering the period from 1095 to 1291. The extreme range of figures, from one million to nine million, suggests the futility of trying to pin down such a figure with any precision. Modern historians of the crusades tend not to make or trust such estimates, as they are skeptical of the ability of anyone to count the deaths of participants over such long periods of time (nearly 200 years) with any precision and weary of the methodological problems this entails.[1] Nevertheless, such figures are often cited by the media or online and these are likely their sources (presented from lowest to highest).


5:49 The "doctrine of discovery" is a hugely different thing in 19th C US and in Inter caetera.

In inter caetera the only things that could be seized were pagan lands refusing the arrival of missionaries.

And it didn't allow for seizing private property, just the state functions.

6:10 "they starved them out"

Who, whom, when?

It's not a description of the constant practise of colonial Spain or Portugal.

6:33 Whatever George W. Bush believed, about God speaking to him, he was no Catholic.

He attended Yale University from 1964 to 1968, graduating with a Bachelor of Arts degree in history. During this time, he was a cheerleader and a member of the Delta Kappa Epsilon, serving as the president of the fraternity during his senior year. Bush became a member of the Skull and Bones society as a senior.


He is listed as Methodist and Episcopalian. And as Converts to Methodism from Anglicanism.

[Tried to add]

6:48 "over a million deaths" ... unlike the one of the Crusades, actually a death toll of opponents to the Western side.


8:37 Kicking people off their lands ... Prussians replacing Poles, Cromwell shouting "to Hell of Connaught" and Andrew Jackson doing to Indians (I think Cherokee) what Zionists with less success have tried to do to Palestinians ... I hear you. None of the examples is Catholic, though.

10:43 No, He did not say to go back before there was religion.

He said He was the One Who Is.

11:00 Jesus did not in His mortal life meet Paul. True.

Those who were His disciples however did accept Paul had seen Him for real. And them ... yes, He did leave them in command.

And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven [Matthew 16:19]

That's making Peter second in command. What did Peter say about Paul?

And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction [2 Peter 3:15-16]

[Going back a little]


7:09 100 to 150 million deaths ... over 1000 years.

Communism, 90 million deaths, not counting Maoism, over the time 1917 to 1990.

But unlike Communism, I don't think that total is true for Christianity.

[On again.]


11:30 It doesn't occur to you that accusationism and counting Protestant atrocities along with Catholic ones as "of Christianity" creates more division and hate.

Did you get your total from "The Great Big Book of Horrible Things"?

12:14 Oh ... you "help people every day who have been traumatised by Christianity" ...

A psychiatric or psychotherapeutic fraud, in other words. Perhaps not too unrelated to the ones who have been pestering me basically half of my online time (varies and for the total may be exaggerated) plus telling people around me I'm deconstructing, when I'm definitely not, in order to lessen interest for my Christian writings, because, if I were deconstructing, I would sooner or later regret those words.

Nope. Not regretting them. And it's c. 20 years people of this brand have made this, that or the other excuse for basically blocking me from readers other than themselves and so from an income.

* Retranslating from an unfortunately automatically translated title, which in French reads: Le christianisme est la religion la plus meurtrière de l'histoire (voici les statistiques !) Well, no, as I've shown.

More Linguistics Related


"A Modest Proposal" (No, not that one) · Linguistic Related · More Linguistics Related

Q I
Was Proto-Indo-European a real language spoken by ordinary people or a theoretical language used only by experts or people interested in the topic today?
https://www.quora.com/Was-Proto-Indo-European-a-real-language-spoken-by-ordinary-people-or-a-theoretical-language-used-only-by-experts-or-people-interested-in-the-topic-today/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
28.VII.2025
Proto-Indo-European is a reconstructed language.

It exists in several versions.

One sometimes speaks about “when they spoke Proto-Indo-European” and this actually means more like “when they spoke what our Proto-Indo-European is a stand in for” …

And presuming it was one language.

If ever it was one, it certainly had some differences from our reconstructions. These are made by a will to avoid filling in un-known details. Hence all the word stems ending in a hyphen. If such a word stem actually belonged to a single language of which both Danish and Bengali are descended, like in Danish and Bengali, it had endings. So, showing a stem followed by a hyphen with no ending is certainly not on the “real language spoken by ordinary people” side, it’s only the “experts today” side. Again, “fish” has one word in Latin with descendants, Irish and Germanic (while Welsh has borrowed from Latin, borrowings don’t count the same way). It has another word in Ancient Greek and Lithuanian and possibly some other language (was it Armenian?) and yet another word in Slavic. This could be explained by one of the sides borrowing from non-Indo-European, it could be explained from a variation within PIE (like Sweden has “hink” or “spann” for bucket, depending on region, or like English can call the same kind of drink “soda pop” or “fizzy drink” depending on region), or it could be that a language with the fish/piscis/iasc gloss and another language with the ichthys/zhuvis gloss were existing independently and borrowed other traits common to Indo-European (like personal endings of verbs) from each other.

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl
To compare. One source for Tolkien’s Quenya was the desire to fill in words in the languages of NW Europe and even to some extent NE Europe that are NOT supposed to come in PIE. Icelandic álft for swan “explained” by Sindarin possibly “alph” which corresponds to Quenya “alqua” … Balto-Slavic word for arm or hand, the Lithuania form is directly copied in Quenya, except the spelling difference “ranka” vs “ranca” (In Lithuanian the C would instead be pronounced TS, not what’s in the word).

But here, Tolkien was not just making a purely scientific reconstruction, he wanted a usable language, so, he filled in lots of uncertainties. In fact, digging for pre-Indo-European West of where Finno-Ugrians were would mostly result in uncertainties, not even enough to write poetry in, so Tolkien “filled in” artistically … PIE doesn’t.

II

28.VII.2025

Peter Park
Also, most actual languages spoken by ordinary people have clusters of near-synonyms with overlapping or only fuzzily distinct meanings. Thus,, in modern English, we have clusters like mountain-hill-peak-range, stone-rock-boulder-pebble, river-stream-creek-brook, woman-wife-lady-dame-girl-maiden, child-kid, teenager-adolescent, snake-serpent, bug-insect, urine-piss-pee, penis-cock-prick-willie-weewee, speak-talk-say-tell, bad-evil-wicked, etc. So, when a given language divides into increasingly different dialects that eventually become distinct separate languages, one daughter-language may prioritize one word of such a cluster while another daughter-language prioritizes another word from that cluster.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
That’s also one possible explanation.

Q II
Is it possible for a language that seems radically different today to have an ancient connection to Proto-Indo-European that we just haven't discovered yet?
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-a-language-that-seems-radically-different-today-to-have-an-ancient-connection-to-Proto-Indo-European-that-we-just-havent-discovered-yet/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
28.VII.2025
I don’t think I really understand what you mean by “radically different” … several “branches of Indo-European” are radically different from each other, and we have still “discovered” that they are Indo-European.

Danish and Bengali are different.
Dansk og bengali er forskellige.
ড্যানিশ এবং বাঙালি ভিন্ন।
(=Ḍyāniśa ēbaṁ bāṅāli bhinna.)

Give me a fish, I’m Gollum.
Giv mig en fisk, jeg er Gollum.
আমাকে একটা মাছ দাও, আমি গোলম।.
(=Āmākē ēkaṭā mācha dā'ō, āmi gōlama.)


So, by now, a connection to Indo-European very probably would be discovered. I’d rather ask the opposite question: do all languages thought to be Indo-European really descend from the supposed Proto-Indo-European, or are they more like different languages influencing each other without total or sufficient assimilation? Sufficient for immediate understanding between monolinguals of each, that is.

I often take the Finnish verbal endings for the persons to say that, while Finnish isn’t Indo-European, it could have been a marginal member of the kind of Sprachbund I have in mind. There is still a reason why Finnish isn’t Indo-European. All Indo-European words seem to be borrowed from Iranian and Germanic languages, perhaps Baltic too, recently Slavic as well. Current reconstructions of Proto-Indo-European and sound law hypotheses for Finnish do not allow for Finnish to have inherited these words or the verb endings from PIE, as far as I know.

Q III
What archaeological culture did the first Indo-Europeans in Scandinavia belong to?
https://www.quora.com/What-archaeological-culture-did-the-first-Indo-Europeans-in-Scandinavia-belong-to/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Answer requested by
Collin Moore

Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
1.VIII.2025
By “Indo-European” I suppose you mean Yamnaya.

Some recent studies in Spain have suggested the Yamnaya were rather speakers of Basque, which would explain the similarities between Basque and some Caucasus based languages. For those saying “no, Basque was a relict among Hunter Gatherers driven out by Yamnaya …” two observations from that study,[1] or, since I didn’t read it, from a youtube channel[2] the first[3] four videos of which are related to the study:

  • The admixture of WHG in Basques is comparable to the admixture of AAF in Corded ware.
  • If we compare Basques, not with Yamnaya, but with Corded Ware, the Corded Ware genome in Basques is comparable to the Yamnaya genome i Corded Ware.
  • The rest of Spain was not into WHG genome, but in pre-Roman times clearly spoke a language related to Basque, for which the only source possible is Yamnaya.


That was actually a third observation.

Now, to your question as reformulated. Yamnaya genes came to Scandinavia through the Corded Ware culture and therefore with that admixture of AAF. Here[4] is University of Gothenburg:

Then 5,000 years ago, the next population turnover occurred, when people of the Corded Ware culture, with their genetic background in Eastern Europe, entered the scene.

“Around 2800 BCE, people of the Corded Ware culture, also called the Single Grave culture, immigrated to Denmark,” says archaeologist Karl-Göran Sjögren.


Footnotes

[1] Origins and spread of Indo-European languages: an alternative view – Ancient DNA Era
[2] Yamokante
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J18e8jEMQU
[4] New study unearths our Scandinavian ancestors

Q IV
How did Latin's vowel system change in the move to the Romance languages, and why is it so tricky to reconstruct?
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Latins-vowel-system-change-in-the-move-to-the-Romance-languages-and-why-is-it-so-tricky-to-reconstruct/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
none/ apprx Masters in Latin (language) & Greek (language), Lund University
1.VIII.2025
Latin’s vowel system on the front of the Classical language is simply NOT tricky to reconstruct, we already know it from grammarians.

The vowel system changed indeed, in different ways depending on different parts of the Empire, but grammarians didn’t note this, back then, other than as faults to be corrected. So, reconstructions have to be done, but they are by and large already made, not very tricky any more at least.

Latin had, apart from diphthongs, ten vowels. A, E, I, O, U times LONG / SHORT. On the way to Romance in most places the distinction long / short was lost, but replaced by other distinctions. So, before we get to Italian, Spanish, French, we find seven vowels. A, I and U as in Latin, A from both long and short, I and U from long only. Short I and long E become closed E. Short U and long O become closed O. Short E and O become open E and O. This is a simplification, not taking into account diphthongs and unaccented vowels. Italian basically keeps this, Spanish diphthongises open E and O, French diphthongises both open and closed E and O, in different ways, unless the syllable ended in a consonant (if that was it) and this preserved the original vowel (“sol” from “solum”) or it was unaccented (“sol-” in “soleil” from “solículum”). Spanish also refrains from diphthongising unaccented vowels (tiempo / temporal).

Sardinian and East Romance (Romanian and Dalmatian) had different simplifications of the Latin vowel system.

Joseph Foster
Rumanian diphthongizes those “open” or long /e:/ and /o:/ too when they have the word stress. But the actual phonetic details are different, e.g. Latin nokte-, Rumanian noapte ‘night’, so they happened independently of each other.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I think that’s when they were close … not open.

Joseph Foster
May be. I’m not fluent in the close / open distinction and need to review it. Unstressed /o/ became /u/ in Rumanian.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I’m mostly concerned with the stressed vowels. In each, unstressed vowels is an even other chapter, so I left that alone, I think the front vowels from Latin go to Proto-Romance like in Italian, French and Spanish, the back vowels like Sardinian.

In English, “hair” has a more open E sound and “bed” a more close one.

It’s possible the rule I am discussing also only applies to vowels in open syllables, which puts noctem / noapte outside this dicussion.

Aud-i-tum (long i) > ouï (i is preserved)

S-i-tem, r-e-gem (short i, long e) > soif, roi (diphthongisation of close e).

p-e-dem (short e) > pied (diphthongisation of open e).

I recall sth from a Spanish historic grammar about open or closed syllable being more relevant … but forget the details.

Q V
What is the language that is closest to Basque according to phonetics only?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-language-that-is-closest-to-Basque-according-to-phonetics-only/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Answer requested by
U Un

Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
1.VIII.2025
Not sure if it’s Gascon or Castilian.

Unlike Basque they are both Romance, but they have phonetic changes that Basque also has. Leading to phonetic configurations that Basque also has.

Q VI
When learning a new language, how can a deeper understanding of its historical sound changes or grammatical evolution practically help a learner overcome common pronunciation or grammar hurdles?
https://www.quora.com/When-learning-a-new-language-how-can-a-deeper-understanding-of-its-historical-sound-changes-or-grammatical-evolution-practically-help-a-learner-overcome-common-pronunciation-or-grammar-hurdles/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
2.VIII.2025
If you know some Latin, this thing can be very helpful with Spanish.

Q VII
If we had all the written records of an ancient language like Latin or Ancient Greek from beginning to end (texts, books, everything), could we revive that language?
https://www.quora.com/If-we-had-all-the-written-records-of-an-ancient-language-like-Latin-or-Ancient-Greek-from-beginning-to-end-texts-books-everything-could-we-revive-that-language/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
none/ apprx Masters in Latin (language) & Greek (language), Lund University
2.VIII.2025
Latin and Ancient Greek are already spoken and written, they don’t need reviving.

If we speak of sth that hasn’t survived to our day, there is a separate question of reconstructing it. Sumerian is a case in point, while we have sufficient texts, there are still questions of how certain signes were pronounced. I have seen Aram-Sin spelled as Naram-Lin just a few years ago on wikipedia, that’s because questions still need to be resolved.

Q VIII
Why would someone go to the trouble of creating a complex artificial language for a text like the Rohonc Codex, and what are the leading theories?
https://www.quora.com/Why-would-someone-go-to-the-trouble-of-creating-a-complex-artificial-language-for-a-text-like-the-Rohonc-Codex-and-what-are-the-leading-theories/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
1.VIII.2025
For the leading theories on the Codex Rohonczi I refer to the wikipedia.[1]

As to the motive for an artificial language, simple fun … I have lacked the leisure to create a language, as I have to learn the guitar and the tin whistle, but each of this would have been fun, if I had had more time and less stress. In some cases (that would depend on content and the kind of people transmitting it through the codex) secrecy could be an added motive.

As to the evidence, I suggest you ask someone who is both a con-langer and alerted to the Rohonc codex a bit more than I am. I had to look it up on wikipedia. I simply don’t know.

Footnotes

[1] Rohonc Codex - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohonc_Codex


Q IX
Why is Ancient Greek considered a Indo-European language?
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Ancient-Greek-considered-a-Indo-European-language/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-2


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
2 years ago
Modern Greek is that too. But here we are dealing first with Ancient.

You have verb forms like (with forms for I, thou, he/she, we, ye, they):

δίδωμι, δίδως, δίδωσι(ν), δίδομεν, δίδοτε, διδόασι(ν)

This involves a presumed set of Proto-Indo-European verb endings or endings common to early Indo-Europan groups like:

-mi, -si, -ti, -men/-mes, -te, -nti

that is also reflected in Latin:

su-m, e-s, es-t, su-mus, es-tis, su-nt

(final -i is lost, you have early -mos instead of -mes, and for -te, you add an -s).

The verb itself is pretty obviously cognate to Latin “do” (which has a more regular -o instead of -mi), Sanskrit “dadati” and Polish “dawać, dać” …

You have so much common vocabulary that English and Russian share 25 % of the vocabulary beween the groups (I am not sure how much it is between English and Greek or Russian and Greek). You have so much common grammar that the groups that have been better at preserving endings still have paradigms like

daję, dajesz, daje, dajemy, dajeście, dają (Polish)

or Modern Greek:
δίνω, δίνεις, δίνει, δίνουμε, δίνετε, δίνουν.

The only question is, are these commonalities and similar ones sufficient to prove common ancestry or could a Sprachbund be the explanation? Nikolai Sergeyevitch Trubetskoy thought and I think the latter could be the case. But whether Indo-European languages are a family or a Sprachbund, it is a group and Greek belongs to it, Ancient and Modern.

I
2 years ago

Bojan Stare
Word in Polish isn`t do, but give. Same in Sanskrit and Greek.

And when you have gaven example - verb,you can also give us dual in English and Greeks languages. And of course in Sanskrit. Could you answer me how many of them you will find it?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I never said any of above means English “do.”

I mentioned Latin “do” which means - give.

I will look up in Pokorny. Here is their article:

dō- : də-, auch dō-u- : dəu- : du-

English meaning to give

German meaning `geben'

Grammatical comments (perfektiv) Aoristwurzel mit sekundärem Präsens di-dō-mi.

General comments

Derivatives Nominalbildungen: dō-no-m, dō-ro-m, dō-ti-s, də-ti-s `Gabe', dō-tēr- `Geber', Partiz. dō-to-s, də-to-s, -d-to-s, Infinitiv dō-men-ai, dō-u̯en-ai

Material Ai. dá-dā-ti (Aor. á-dā-m, Opt. dēyām, Fut. dāsyáti, Aor. Med. ádita = gr. ἔδοτο, Inf. dámanē : gr. δόμεναι, vgl. lat. daminī, falls ursprüngl. Infinitiv) `gibt' (pāli dinna zu einem Präs. *di-dā-ti), av. dadāiti ds., apers. Imp. dadātuv `er soll geben'; Wurzelnomen ai. dā́[s] ástu `dator estu'; Infin. dā́tum (: lat. Supin. datum); Partiz. ditá-ḥ (unbelegt), sekundär dattá-ḥ, schwundstuf. in ā-t-tá-ḥ, prá-t-ta-ḥ `hingegeben', ablaut. in tvā́-dāta-ḥ `von dir gegeben', av. dāta-; zum Fut. ai. dāsyāmi (: lit. dúosiu) s. Schwyzer Gr. Gr. I 78811;

arm. ta-m `dō', ta-mk` `damus' (*də-i̯e-mi), Aor. etu (= á-dā-m, idg. *e-dō-m);

gr. δί-δω-μι `gebe', Aor. ἔδωκα, Opt. δοίην (*doii̯ēm). Fut. δώσω, Aor. Med. ἐδοτο, Partiz. δοτός, Infin. hom. δόμεναι und hom. thess. usw. δόμεν (suffixloser Lokativ);

ven. zoto `dedit' = gr. ἔδοτο; zonasto `dōnāvit' vielleicht aus *dōnā-s-to von einem denom. *dōnāi̯ō (*dōno-m : lat. dōnum); mess. pi-do (*dō-t : ai. a-dāt);

alb. da-shë Aor. `ich gab' (*də-sm̥);

lat. dō, dās, dat, dămus (*də-mós), dătis, dănt (sekundär fur *dent aus *(di)-dṇ-ti), alat. danunt; dedī, dătum, dăre `gebe, gewähre', refl. `begebe mich' (dās mit ā nach stā- für *dō = lit. duõ, dúo-k [Specht KZ. 55, 182], gr. hom. δί-δω-θι);

vest. di-de-t `dat', päl. di-da `det', umbr. dirsa, dersa, teřa `det' (*didāt), teřtu, dirstu, titu `dato' (*di-de-tōd), teřte `datur' (*di-da-ter), a-teřa-fust `circumtulerit' (*am-de-da-fos-t); osk. da[da]d `dedat' (*dād(-di)-dād), dadid `dederit' (*dād(-de)-dīd), di-de-st `dabit', dedet, umbr. dede `dedit' (= lat. dĕ-d-ĭt, alt dedet), umbr. teřust, dirsust `dederit' (*dedust), usw.; fal. porded `porrexit' (*por(-de)-ded);

redupl. Präsens ital. *di-dō(?) in lat. reddō (reddidī, redditum, reddere) `gebe zurück' aus *re-d(i)-dō (?) ist angeblich themat. Umgestaltung von *di-dō-mi; andere Komposita sind dē-dō, dī-dō, ē-dō, prō-dō, trā-dō und *ven-dō;

Partiz. lat. dătus `gegeben' = falisk. datu `datum', vest. data `data', päl. datas `datas' (: gr. δοτός); Supin. datum (: ai. Infin. dā́tum);

hierher vielleicht trotz WH. I 193 lat. ce-dō `gib her!' Pl. cette aus *ce-dəte (: gr. δότε);

lit. dúomi (heute sekundär dúodu, lett. duôdu, neugebildet zum alit. Ipv. duodi aus *dō-dhi-, ostlit. dúomu), 2. Sg. dúosi, 3. Sg. dúost(i) `gibt', apr. dāst ds., beruhen nach Kořínek Listy filol. 65, 445 und Szemerényi Et. Slav. Roum. 1, 7 ff. (vgl. E. Fraenkel Balt. Sprachw. 11 f.) nicht auf alter Reduplikation (angebl. *dō-də-mi, bsl. *dōdmi, 3. Sg. *dō-də-ti, bsl. *dōdti > *dōsti), sondern auf unreduplizierter athemat. Flexion (*dōmi, Pl. *dəmós); lit. dúosti, abg. dastъ sind Nachahmungen von lit. ė́sti `ißt' usw., die neben lit. *ė́(d)mi, abg. jamь (aus *ēd-m-) liegen, wo das d der Wurzel als suffixal empfunden wurde; zum Fut. lit. dúosiu s. oben S. 223.

Dasselbe würde gelten von aksl. damь `ich werde geben', 3. Pl. dadętь (nach jadętь usw.); aksl. dažda `Gabe' ist Analogiebildung nach *ědja `Essen', wo das d wiederum als Formans betrachtet wurde.

Infin. lit. dúoti, lett. duôt, apr. dāt (*dō-ti-) = aksl. dati, serb. dȁti, russ. datь.

Zum Prät. lit. daviaũ, lett. devu `gab' s. unten.

Partiz. *dō-na- in aksl. prě-danъ, serb. dân, čech. dán, klr. dányj `gegeben'; *dō-ta- ds. in apr. dāts, lit. dúotas, lett. duôts; einzelsprachl. Neuerungen sind serb. dial. dât, čech. dátý; dazu lit. duotina `mannbar', russ.-ksl. podatьnъ, russ. podátnyj `freigebig'; Supin. *dōtun `zu geben' in apr. daton (Infin.); lit. dúotų, aksl. otъdatъ, sloven. dat; vgl. slav. *datъ-kъ in sloven. dodâtɛk, poln. dodatek, russ. dodátok `Zugabe';

hitt. dā- `nehmen', 1. Sg. da-aḫ-ḫi (daḫḫi), 3. Sg. da-a-i (dāi), wird von Pedersen (Muršilis 68) und Kretschmer (Glotta 19, 207) hierher gestellt (`geben' - `für sich geben'- `nehmen'); dagegen Couvreur Ḫ 206 ff.

Nominalbildungen: ai. dā́tar-, dātár- `Geber', gr. δώτωρ, δωτήρ ds., schwachstufig δοτήρ, δότειρα, lat. dător, datrīx. - Ai. dātrá-, av. dāϑra- n. `Geschenk'.

*dō-tel- in aksl. dateljь (*dō-tel-i̯u-) `Geber', čech. udatel `Angeber', russ. dátelь `Geber'.

Ai. *dāti- `Schenkung, Gabe' in dā́ti-vāra- `gern verteilend, freigebig', havya-dāti- `die Opfergabe besorgend, das Darbringen des Opfers', av. dāiti- `Geben, Schenken, Gewährung', gr. δῶτις Hes. (und kons. St. *dō-t- in δώς) `Gabe', Δωσί-θεος, -φρων, lat. dōs, -tis `Mitgift', lit. Inf. dúoti: slav. *datь `Gabe' (z. B. in aksl. blagodatь `χάρις', russ. pódatь `Steuer'), Inf. dati; schwachstufig ai. díti-ḥ, gr. δόσις `Gabe', lat. dati-ō, -tiōnis (alt *-tīnes) `das Schenken' (Suffix wie in gr. δωτί̄νη `Gabe'); mit Vokalschwund in Enklise ai. bhága-tti- `Glücksgabe'.

Ai. dā́na- n. `Geschenk' (substantiviertes -no-Partiz.) = lat. dōnum, osk. usw. dunum ds. (duunated `dōnāvit'); cymr. dawn ds., air. dān m. `donum, ars, ingenium (Begabung)', vgl. slav. *danъ-kъ in serb. dának `Abgabe, Steuer' usw. und den -ni-St. aksl. danь `Abgabe, Zoll', lit. duõnis `Gabe'; schwachstufig alb. dhënë `gegeben', f. `Gabe, Abgabe', geg. dhânë;

gr. δῶρον `Geschenk' (-ro- in pass. Geltung, vgl. z. B. clā-ru-s), aksl. darъ `Gabe' (m. wie *danъkъ), arm. tur ds.;

ai. dāyá- `gebend', dāyá- m. `Geschenk', apreuß. dāian Akk. `Gabe', serb. prȍ-daja `Verkauf' (usw., Berneker 176).

Als 2. Kompositionsglied ai. -dā- z. B. in aśvadā́- `Rosse schenkend', slav. mit Überführung in die o-Dekl., z. B. russ. dial. pó-dy Pl. `Abgaben, Steuern', serb. prî-d `Draufgabe beim Tausch'; lit. priẽdas `Zugabe, Zulage'.

dō̆-u- liegt vor in ai. dāvánē `zu geben' (auch Perf. dadáu `habe gegeben'), av. dāvōi `zu geben', kypr. δυϝάνοι `er möge geben', Inf. δοϝεναι (über ark. Partiz. ἀπυ-δόας s. Schwyzer Gr. Gr. I 745 f.), kontrahiert hom.-att. δοῦναι;

lat. duim, duīs usw. `dem, dēs', Fut. II -duō, enthalten einen Aorist-stamm *du- aus *dou̯-; duim ist aus Optat. *-dou̯īm in den Kompositis entstanden (prō-duint aus *prō-dou̯int, usw.), dann auch bei Kompositis von *dhē- : per-duim, usw. Zum ital. Optativ *dou̯īm trat wohlerst sekundär im Umbr. und Fal. ein Präsens *dou̯iō in fal. doviad `möge gewähren' (es scheint daher lat. duam usw. in Kompositis geschwächtes *doviām zu sein), umbr. pur-dovitu, pur-tuvitu, -tuetu `porricito', purtuvies `porricies', umbr. purditom (*-d(o)u̯itom) `porrectum', purtiius (*d(o)u̯īus) `porrexeris', purtifile `*porricibilem', aus synkopiertem *por-d[o]u̯ī́- mit Wandel von du̯ zu d; in purdovitu Imper. wurde die Synkope durch den Indik. *pór-dovīt gehindert;

lit. daviaũ `ich gab', dovanà f. `Gabe', lett. dâvana f. `Gabe', Iterativ dãvât, dāvinât `anbieten, schenken', aksl. -davati `verteilen' (eine der Musterformen für die Iterative auf-vati).

Über as. twīthōn `gewähren' usw. s. unter deu-2 `freundlich gewähren'.


Here is the site, it will not link to each article, you need to toggle at a menu bar on the left to get to first the right letter then the right article:

J. Pokorny's Indo-European Etymological Dictionary [dead link]
https://indo-european.info/pokorny-etymological-dictionary/whnjs.htm

Hans-Georg Lundahl
“Could you answer me how many of them you will find it?”

After looking at what I just copied, for this one Germanic and Celtic are absent.

II
5.VIII.2025

Christopher Bader
The Indo-European languages are absolutely not a Sprachbund, that is a group of unrelated or distantly related languages that have converged in certain respects due to geographical proximity and population contact. Ancient Greek and Vedic Sanskrit were spoken thousands of miles apart, yet they are so similar that they must be genetically related.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Both the theory of a common ancestral language and the theory of convergence by geographic proximity (less so the theory of convergence by trade proximity, like there was trade between Villanova culture with Mycenaean clear influx and Denmark), both suppose that the geographic distance is secondary.

As to your specific example:

Mitanni[1] (c. 1550–1260 BC),[a] earlier called Ḫabigalbat in old Babylonian texts, c. 1600 BC;[1] Hanigalbat or Hani-Rabbat in Assyrian records,[b] or Naharin in Egyptian texts, was a Hurrian-speaking state in northern Syria and southeast Anatolia (modern-day Turkey)[2] with Indo-Aryan linguistic and political influences.


I suppose you are aware that the Aryan element in Mitanni is older than Vedic Sanskrit, and that East Anatolia is way closer to Greece than India is.

Footnotes

[1] Mitanni - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitanni


Q X
Do we have any written evidence of Indo-European languages before Sanskrit?
https://www.quora.com/Do-we-have-any-written-evidence-of-Indo-European-languages-before-Sanskrit/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
2 years ago
Hittite, Mycenaean Greek, I am not sure what the language of the Mitanni is called (Hurrite or Mitanni?) but that one too. Luwian, Lydian. And in small inscriptions even Italic and Venetic.

Written evidence of Sanskrit only comes after Ashoka’s edict with its written evidence for Prakrit, a daughter language of Sanskrit or dialects contemporary to it.

4.VIII.2025

Stefan Speck
Hurrite is not Indo-European.

6.VIII.2025
[Cannot answer, he disabled the answer button, but he's correct, the Mitanni ruled over speakers of Hurrian, but their élite were speaking an Indo-European language, actually related to Vedic and Sanscrit, but older.]

Q XI
What makes Icelandic so conservative in keeping old letters like 'þ' and 'ð', compared to other Scandinavian languages?
https://www.quora.com/What-makes-Icelandic-so-conservative-in-keeping-old-letters-like-%C3%BE-and-%C3%B0-compared-to-other-Scandinavian-languages/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-2


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
6.VIII.2025
Icelandic was from a certain point in the Middle Ages on not used as official language of an independent state. The official language from a certain point on was Danish. Icelandic was cultivated as a hobby.

Norwegian from a certain point on was in a similar position, except that only parts of Norway retained the original Norwegian close to Icelandic, other parts took over Danish with a changed pronunciation.

Danish and Swedish however hit the printing press as official languages of two kingdoms (one comprising also modern Finland, that’s Sweden, the other also Norway and Iceland, that’s Denmark). Printing was not at its absolute peak of sophistication, so Þ (thorn) got replaced with th, Ð (Eth) or mostly lower case ð got replaced with dh, and for good measure, g got replaced with gh in positions analogous to dh.

Since then Danish and Swedish both lost the sound of th, replacing the digraph with t (except in some pronouns where it was pronounced dh often enough and got replaced with d), while Icelandic didn’t. Once Icelandic became an interest for people with printing press, the letters Þ (thorn) and Ð (Eth) were by now easy to reproduce in print, and printers did.

Another question is why Icelandic was so phonetically conservative as to preserve thorn. Linguists have sometimes spoken of insular conservatism. While this has been invoked for English conserving thorn and w, Tolkien however pointed to the vicinity of Welsh, which also has both sounds. Ultimately a sound changing or remaining in a language is mysterious.

Q XII
How do you attempt to change the language in Vietnam?
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-attempt-to-change-the-language-in-Vietnam/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-2


Hans-Georg Lundahl
amateur linguist
6.VIII.2025
Why would I attempt it?

Ask “why” before “if” in some cases, and ask “if” before “how.”

I have neither occasion nor interest in changing the language of Vietnam, in fact I spell my Swedish differently precisely in order to refuse the changes imposed partly by élites and partly by the Government … my spelling and conjugation is basically early 19th C.

Sunday, August 3, 2025

Mentor / Mentoree Dynamics Changing with Age Pyramid


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Replying to advice from Cameron Riecker · Mentor / Mentoree Dynamics Changing with Age Pyramid · New blog on the kid: Is There Traditional Property in the Digital Sphere? · To Whoever Tries to Tell Me I Write "Wrong" (Not Meaning I Am Wrong About a Subject, Which Would be a Matter for a Debate)

HOLLYWOOD KILLED the MENTOR Archetype... And It’s RUINING Stories.
Snarky Jay | 1 Aug. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uFzivpfrBY


Generation proportions or age pyramid.

US 2025 vs US 1977, "mentor age":

100 +,  0.0 / 0.0 %  vs  0.0 / 0.0 %
96 99,  0.0 / 0.1 %  vs  0.0 / 0.0 %
90 94,  0.2 / 0.4 %  vs  0.1 / 0.1 %
85 89,  0.5 / 0.7 %  vs  0.2 / 0.4 %
80 84,  1.0 / 1.3 %  vs  0.4 / 0.8 %
75 79,  1.7 / 2.0 %  vs  0.8 / 1.2 %
70 74,  2.2 / 2.5 %  vs  1.2 / 1.6 %
65 69,  2.8 / 3.0 %  vs  1.6 / 2.0 %
60 64,  3.1 / 3.1 %  vs  2.0 / 2.3 %


One section of the "mentoree age":

20 24  3.4 / 3.2 %  vs  4.6 / 4.7 %


Case in point. I'm 56, soon 57. I'm a writer and would love an editor. Sorry, publishing house, in French that's "éditeur" ...

Some of the crooks who infiltrate my online readership think of me as a mentoree.

I just got a mail from a certain person on the site Story Grid who told me, it would be wiser as to writing, first to practise, then to perform.

He is definitely mostly into novel writing, and I'm an essay writer.

He thinks my claim to being a writer lies in a mostly abandoned novel project and that all the essays I produce are just a distraction.

And he is so confident that my lack of success must come from lack of practise. First the equation of writing with performing music is pretty atrocious. Second, there is a reason why certain guys hate my stuff, and it's not stylistic. It's a high disagreement degree on what content I should produce.

Yes, you heard me right. Some people are so much at a loss for finding mentorees age 20 to 24 that they go to someone more like 55 to 60 (nearly going on mentor age) ... who has practised writing, while writing, for the time since 2001.

Or, some people hate my message, and they find their claim to offering their services as a mentor credible. Other possible cause for lack of success, I'm being painted as a mentor in search for mentorees, which obviously alienates the age in which I could win converts (without necessarily being much of a mentor).

Wednesday, July 30, 2025

Friendly Atheist Took On Connor (part I)


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Defending Connor's Honour, So Far (And One Comment,15, Was Censored as I Corrected It) · Friendly Atheist Took On Connor (part I) · I Prefer Per Engdahl over Fridtjuv Bergh · New blog on the kid: In Response to Doug Wilson Who Responded to Caleb Campbell (pastor)

One actual misgiving about Connor, and lots of other Fascists but also NS ... they could be into pushing homeless out of liberties, but not offering actual homes with freedoms. The reason I don't count this against historic Fascism is, every other state did so too (Social Democratic Scandinavia, Democrats of the US, Progressive Democrats in Canada ...), to some degree even Austria (Aufenthaltslager).


The Debate on Jubilee with Mehdi Hasan earned a Fascist Catholic sacking*
Friendly Atheist | 24 July 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is1sRF6wj7c


The only one I hear about is Connor.

I didn't find him scary.

I do NOT think Connor made it a "me" vs "you" thing.

In a certain way, "us" vs "them" ... yes. He doesn't like abortionists or Church looters (neither do I). You don't like Fascists.

In each case, you are both disliking or we are all three disliking someone not for himself or not liking the shape of his nose, but for something added to the person, some choice.

I'm not really sure where Connor stands on a Commie who is:
  • not providing or seeking abortion or contraception
  • not attacking the Catholic Church
  • not trying to overthrow a government because it's Fascist.


If he'd be fine with shooting or even just in peacetime imprisoning someone over simple Ostalgia, I'd be against that, but I don't find it all that probable. If that's so, he would be somewhat like you, except you may prefer sacking over shooting. As he's a Fascist, he's syndical, so, sacking isn't really his thing.

If, like me, he wouldn't hurt that kind of Commie or a Commie probably in those situations, you are the one closest to us three to wanting to degrade someone for simple identity, even if it is a chosen one.

3:14 How much do you have to back up your views against Connor?

"crazy, doesn't want to live in a democracy"

Sounds like prejudice.

3:26 "the rules that apply to you should not have to apply to me"

Not what he's saying. More like the limitations on power that apply to your side should not apply to my side.

In other words, kind of a turning the tables on the situation as it is. In "democracy" as it is now, power limitations on Fascists don't apply to people who loved the governments handing the US abortions, contraception and gay marriage. In fact, the kind of things I've seen being pushed against Connor would be regarded as beyond insane if a Fascist tried to push them against run of the mill modern Democrats.

3:47 What right out racist thing could you link to, if not copy?

Are you making this up?

Connor did say the American nation which should be represented by an American government is mainly a white population.

He did specifically say it also included some non-white populations.

I did not specifically hear him say that excluded the Afro-Americans. More probably included, if I can give an educated guess.

4:15 If I may venture an educated guess ... Connor would want US American mothers to have 52 weeks paid maternity leave per child.

As they haven't that, they have less of a chance being homemakers.

Nazis, so presumably Fascists too, have complained on how two incomes have become a standard necessity to even have an appartment.

Citing an actual Nazi (no longer among my FB friends, I can't recall why), "women on the labour market have been driving wages down since ..." (forget the year).

On a video about how other countries are making better deals for their workers, which was spoken by a voice not totally unlike his, though not in a heated debate tone, I heard that some decades back (1960?) only 20 % of women worked full time, now it's far more, not having two incomes is basically a luxury these days ... (the video mentioned countries with 52 weeks paid maternity leave, I think Afghanistan was among them, unless that was the one with even more weeks).**

4:53 It was in actual fact Mehdi who, at once, pin pointed Carl Schmitt as a Nazi. In historic fact and probably more to Connor's taste, he went over to Franco's Spain after a while.

The "yeah" should probably be interpreted "yes, that's the guy" than "yes, that's how I see him too" when he specifically was condescending to NS régime and enthusiastic for Franco's.

Carl Schmitt was not a simple propagandist, he was a philosopher. You may detest his philosophy, but that doesn't make him just a propagandist.

He was the one promoting a nominal adherence to the former constitution rather than a simple change of constitution in 1933, didn't like Jewish authors (a prejudice somewhat common at the time, neither did Waldemar Bonsels) and he fell out of favour as early as 1936. In 1937 Goebbels stopped the NS administration from harrassing him, which they had by then done for a year.

He was after the war banned from professorship, because he refused denazification (persecution for his political views, with the difference that in Germany they were becoming illegal), was a friend of Ernst Jünger and a few more and in 1962 / 63 wrote a work on Franco in the civil war, and the partisans supporting him.

In 1962, Schmitt gave lectures in Francoist Spain, two of which resulted in the publication, the next year, of Theory of the Partisan, in which he characterized the Spanish Civil War as a "war of national liberation" against "international Communism". Schmitt regarded the partisan as a specific and significant phenomenon which, during the latter half of the 20th century, indicated the emergence of a new theory of warfare.


Probably this is where Connor Estelle has his views on Franco from. I used other sources, including documentaries in Swedish state owned TV and one biography written by Michel del Castillo, son of Spanish Republicans who went to France. I didn't know some of the things Paul Preston wrote until yesterday. They are less flattering than what Michel del Castillo had to say. Or the early 1980's documentary on Swedish TV. I suppose the reverse can reasonably be said for Carl Schmitt's work.

6:45 Noting, Connor didn't even vote Trump. Perhaps not even a Republican. Maybe pretty probably not.

7:18 "I do have a problem with giving them this chance to espouse their views"

Expose, I suppose you meant, slip of the tongue, happens.

In other words, you think that while a man has legal freedom of speech, people should by private initiative band together to exclude some from this freedom?

Why don't you worry about a real NS? Kyle Langford:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esj4WN2L-cQ




* Not sure of the exact English title, youtube unfortunately pushes an automated French translation on someone watching from France: "Le débat du jubilé de Mehdi Hasan a valu le licenciement d'un fasciste catholique"

** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBkeAo2Hlg