Two Quorans answering "What is the best answer to someone who says the universe is only 6,000 years old?" (quora, obviously)

New blog on the kid : A Yogi was Very Sure of "Science" · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Two Quorans answering "What is the best answer to someone who says the universe is only 6,000 years old?" (quora, obviously) · New blog on the kid : An Unpleasant Debate with a Scandinavian · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Other Answers, Where I do Arguing on Matters Not Persons, Crossing words with Iñaki Rodriguez under Two Answers

Q

What is the best answer to someone who says the universe is only 6,000 years old?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-answer-to-someone-who-says-the-universe-is-only-6-000-years-old/answer/Mihai-Chitoiu

Mihai Chitoiu

Sales Consultant

Written Tue

In case of a debate on whether the Universe is 6000 years or older, you should just walk away, people who still believe that in 2017 will not understand any scientific observation or reasonable argument, you’re just going to get a severe headache and astonishment.

Firstly you will say the evident: dinosaur fossils, they will say you have no idea that carbon dating is accurate, or that they are part of a diabolic conspiracy, or that God put dinosaur fossils there to test our faith.

Its just a case of psychology, i think: you will never be able to change someone’s mind over his beliefs if that somebody has been indoctrinated all his life with religious crap. From a natural explorer of knowledge (which is what a human being should be), these people are grown into mindlessly believing Bible “facts”.

Now take an example: you live in a small religious community, you were told all your life the same Bible stories, all your life, over and over, everybody in that community agrees, there is no debate, nobody questions anything.

Then you come to a big city for work or school, and get into a debate with somebody that says: the Universe is infinite, and was formed billions of years ago in the Big Bang.

That statement would seem to you as clear blasphemy. Then as a shock, you will simply deny yourself evident facts, struggling to stick to your own beliefs and clinging to whatever explanation that disproves, even by a long shot, all valid arguments.

I think psychologically its called: argument from ignorance, everything religion related comes from that:

you see the world - have no idea how it got there - assume God did it - debate everyone by saying they can’t disprove God did it.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Excuse me, please tell me that you went to school before the fall of Ceaucescu?

If your teacher taught you that kind of crap about creationists and about what we reason, I hope he lost his job 1990 or so?

Or ….?

Mihai Chitoiu

Hello,

I started school in the post-Ceausescu era, so sorry about that…

I guess my answer made you angry and unsettled? Like the example i wrote ;)?

Well then, you are in denial phase! You can look it up in wikipedia :)

Hans-Georg Lundahl

I am as unlike your guess as you are unlike my hope.

I feared that kind of attitude could still remain even after Ceaucescu.

Sorry for Romania about that.

I had a stepfather from Romania / France / Germany who had gone in the schools under Ceacescu or perhaps Ana Pauker.

He raised me evolutionist the early years, and was later (after divorce) upset at ma for bringing up creationism and considered me weakminded for believing it.

Apparently, in Romania, both under and after Communism, Creationism has a cultural “tag”, of the sort you bring up.

The example you wrote does make me angry because it reduces Creationists to a stereotype and because it tries to pretend the cultural isolation of what you presumed to be a typical one is relevant, while your own cultural isolation is not relevant.

Just because you are culturally isolated with lots more people than I, right now, if I had been culturally isolated.

Have you heard anything about one Emil Silvestru?

Mihai Chitoiu

Emil Silvestru is trying to “scientifically explain” Bible events and creationism, but anyone with a logical mind can see that he is full of crap.

You are seeking refuge in the explanations of somebody just because they seem logical and because it makes you comfortable with your beliefs. Everything you say falls under the specific psychological profile of religious people: you are never satisfied with any valid argument that debunks your beliefs.

Whereas atheists, i think, all secretly hope for that evidence of miracles, that will make them wonder… it never happens though… Its all logical processes.

The only thing weird from what you said is the fact that even though you were raised on science and evolution, later on you turned to religion, i’m not sure what to make of that, maybe some childhood trauma related to your father.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You have showed one thing to full satisifaction : you have no valid arguments yourself, you are just eager to discredit those who have such, whether Emil Silvestru or me.

I am not even much relying on Emil Silvestru’s particular arguments, he is somewhat marginal to my own research in Creation Science.

I mentioned him, because he is - like I - unlike the stereotype of Creationists from middle of nowhere in most rural Kentucky, he is not ignorant of Evolutionist arguments, he is an ex-Evolutionist.

You can explain that away with his being “full of crap”, but you can’t change he is not what you just tried to portray us creationists as.

And you are trying to discredit me as well, by talking psychology, instead of adressing the fact you were wrong, you were speaking without thinking of a man whom in fact you knew of.

I am glad I didn’t here link to his profile on CMI, since this proves you knew of him before I mentioned him.

Q

What is the best answer to someone who says the universe is only 6,000 years old?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-answer-to-someone-who-says-the-universe-is-only-6-000-years-old/answer/Tom-Briggs-2

Tom Briggs

worked at Singapore

Written Sun

I like George Carlin’s response, “What are you, fucking stupid?”

There is no point engaging the proudly ignorant. They didn't reach their point of view using reason and evidence, so why bother trying to convince them using reason and evidence? It is a waste of breath.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

“They didn't reach their point of view using reason and evidence, “

What do you know about that?

Tom Briggs

I know that there is no empirical evidence for the supernatural, magic, faries, bigfoot, any of it. If there was, there wouldn’t be such violent disagreement about belief systems. If these assertions were real there would be no argument about their validity. It would be obvious to all.

That it is not obvious and agreed upon, like all sorts of other data about the universe, is all the reason I need to dismiss these assertions. Religion is a culturally transmitted folk belief. It serves some utility in social organization of less educated societies, but is not subject to empirical validation.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"I know that there is no empirical evidence for the supernatural, magic, faries, bigfoot, any of it."

Either you are wrong on what "empirical" means, or you are simply wrong on fact.

There is lots of empirical, that is historical evidence of all of above. It is just filtered out by historiographers of modern convictions or conventions.

"If there was, there wouldn’t be such violent disagreement about belief systems."

There is a violent disagreement between Creationists and Evolutionists, does that mean there is no empirical evidence life began?

Should one from that conclude Epicure was right and Universe including Earth eternal?

"If these assertions were real there would be no argument about their validity. It would be obvious to all."

Simply false. There are lots of real issues where there is also real disagreement, and even very violent one.

That you have been culturally shielded from noting it or taking part in it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

"That it is not obvious and agreed upon, like all sorts of other data about the universe,"

You are even wrong about other data about the universe.

There is disagreement.

"Religion is a culturally transmitted folk belief."

So is science, so is history, so is anything worth having. Some having furthermore some buttressing in very well kept records, and religion of the Christian Faith being in that category.

"It serves some utility in social organization of less educated societies, but is not subject to empirical validation."

You have just shown you are less educated and of a less educated culture, since your teacher had such an easy time convincing you of that.

Tom Briggs

I chose not to engage for the reasons stated above.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Feel free to do as you like there.

Update

here is a third one:

Q

What is the best answer to someone who says the universe is only 6,000 years old?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-answer-to-someone-who-says-the-universe-is-only-6-000-years-old/answer/Hayley-More

Hayley More

I'm a Christian

Written Sun

“Cool. Hey, we could have a fun debate over that sometime, if you'd like. Anyway - have you done the maths homework for next lesson?”

I actually know multiple people who think this. I am fully able to continue regarding them as valid human beings.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

“I am fully able to continue regarding them as valid human beings.”

I. Feel. So. Flattered!

Hayley More

I hope you could tell it was sarcasm (aimed at anyone who for some reason has a problem with anyone disagreeing with them)!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

It seems you are the guy who in this question has a problem with anyone disagreeing with you.

Or did I get wrong whom your meant?

Like, sarcasam against those who do NOT consider us as valid human beings?

Would be welcome, but is a bit hard to hope for … right now.

Hayley More

Dude, I'm getting confused now, but the point I was trying to make was that there should be no issue in getting on with people you disagree with, and yes, that obviously includes considering them valid human beings. I'm not sure which side of this you fall on, but I can guarantee that whatever your opinion is on how old the Earth is, I won't take issue with you yourself because of it.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Thanks.

I have just had an overdose of people unlike you, lately!

Hayley More

You're welcome, and I’m sorry it's been that way!