Marc Robidoux Kept on Topic on Two Questions

Whom did Cain and possibly Abel marry and what happened to the Ark? I respond, he begins an argument ...

Q I

Originally Answered: When cain killed Abel, who did cain married?
Now : After killing Abel, Cain is the only child of Adam. Who did he later mate with?
https://www.quora.com/After-killing-Abel-Cain-is-the-only-child-of-Adam-Who-did-he-later-mate-with/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered July 28

A sister or a niece.

Probably a sister.

And the days of Adam, after he begot Seth, were eight hundred years: and he begot sons and daughters. (Genesis 5:4)

This doesn’t mean that he had no daughters or even sons other than Cain and Abel before Seth, it was mainly put here because he continued to have them after this.

Marc Robidoux

16h ago

5.VIII.2021

Notwithstanding the fact that this is all a figment of someone's (rather weird) imagination, the human race was never down to 2 individuals or perpetuated merely by incest. Luckily, this is not possible, nor desirable, if it had, the next generation would have looked something like this:

And would have been extinct within the next couple of cohorts.

Ick

Hans-Georg Lundahl

6h ago

5.VIII.2021

It so happens, I am not familiar with US (or whatever) pop culture to the extent of knowing if these two people came from incestuous or even non-incestuous but simply inbreeding parents.

I am however sufficiently familiar with genetics to know, consanguinity even in its extreme form of (what would normally be) incest does not in and of itself produce bad mutations, it only surfaces such that were already there in common ancestor to the parents.

Just as dirty streets (relatively speaking) in the Middle Ages of Europe couldn’t miraculously produce vibrio cholerae or teleport such from Bombay (which is where first cholera pandemic started in 1817, well after the Middle Ages, first time Europeans staying at home had cholera).

I am glad you didn’t produce the banjo player, though, since cri-de-chat syndrome is a chromosome aberration, which is likelier with old mothers, has nothing to do with inbreeding.

Marc Robidoux

4h ago

5.VIII.2021

I guess you’re not “sufficiently familiar with genetics to know” homo sapiens never was limited or down to 2 or even 10 individuals at any time in our genetic past.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

I guess you are not sufficiently familiar with genetics to be aware that this is a reconstruction from what is observed now, which includes populations with very many bad mutations, and that therefore it cannot be projected back with perfect confidence on the actual past.

Marc Robidoux

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

It so happens, you are clearly not familiar with genetics or evolution to know of the ‘Minimum viable population’ concept.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

I do. I do know it. I also know that it is in function of how many bad mutations already exist. In present day populations, that minimum viable may or may not be 10 000 individuals, but with Adam and Eve freshly created by God and only losing immortality, two individuals would have been enough, since having no bad mutations incompatible with human collective survival.

Marc Robidoux

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

Oh so you “know it” but yet you deny all other aspects of MVP don’t fit your bias? And you deny the clear genetic evidence that homo sapiens evolved from other precursor homo species over millions of years? Adam & Eve, right…

What does “none/ apprx Masters in Latin (language) & Greek (language), Lund University“ mean? Does that mean you have an ‘approximate’ Masters in Latin in Greek?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

What it means is, I have no degree (none), but studies for study years and levels at requirement for Masters. Like, five years full time, and of these two years in Latin, with Greek as largest minor with one and a quarter of a year (apprx Masters in Latin and Greek). All of these studies were at Lund University, the second largest of Sweden, 30 km from Malmö.

And you have no way to show that MVP would have been 10 000 with two perfect genomes to start it, and there is no clear evidence, genetic or otherwise, that man evolved from other species over any millions of years.

Homo sapiens is the main component of post-Flood man, Neanderthals and Denisovans were two perhaps viable pre-Flood races, Homo erectus soloensis may have been already non-viable, and appeared only near the Flood. All erectus dates are K-Ar dates and this means they are dated with lava that cooled unusually rapidly, which makes the Flood a clear suspect. All carbon dates are reframeable on a scale within Biblical time frame, starting some time before the Flood.

If Neanderthals and Denisovans were by any chance not viable, their heritage within a mostly sapiens population, as per post-Flood times, is.

All of above descend FROM Adam and Eve and do not precede them.

Q II

After the flood, did Noah turn his ark into a monument or did he turn it into building materials?
https://www.quora.com/After-the-flood-did-Noah-turn-his-ark-into-a-monument-or-did-he-turn-it-into-building-materials/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Answer requested by

L. Stewart Hearl

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Tue, 3.VIII.202

Possibly into building materials.

Or possibly it just rotted away or got buried in whatever mountain in the “mountains of Ararat” or “of Armenia” he landed on.

Marc Robidoux

16h ago

5.VIII.2021

Or possibly it’s all a conglomeration of made up flood myths from multiple brains across the eons, total fiction so to speak.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

6h ago

5.VIII.2021

You know, considering that it was not early on as far as we can see used for pure entertainment purposes, like Superman, but had status as teaching material, that is highly unlikely.

It’s ten times likelier (or ten thousan times likelier even) that a story that is true for some reason gets into discredit, and its remaining appeal is put down to its being “good fiction” than that a story that is fiction just by carelessness gets accepted as fact by whole communities.

Marc Robidoux

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

It’s also true that myths arise from local stories recounting events affecting the story tellers entire sphere of existence, but these story tellers are not aware their sphere of existence is not THE sphere of existence. Concrete example, a flood in the Euphrates valley may have seemed “ Global” to dwellers of that valley, they were simply not aware of the existence of Niagara Falls, or the fact there was anything outside the Euphrates valley. Consider that every event and action taken by god and all the actors in the Bible and the Quran purportedly took place in a small circumference of area around the Middle East. Their definition of ‘ global’ was not the same as ours, and they definitely were not aware of Koala bears.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

Concrete example:

// Concrete example, a flood in the Euphrates valley may have seemed “ Global” to dwellers of that valley, //

A flood of Euphrates valley would not have involved a survivor who landed in Armenian mountains east of Tigris.

It would have involved survivors who went to mountain regions East, West, North of Mesopotamia, and who would have been there to correct any survivor in a ship or coracle if he had thought he and his close family were sole survivors.

// Consider that every event and action taken by god and all the actors in the Bible and the Quran purportedly took place in a small circumference of area around the Middle East. //

Which definitely included areas that would NOT have been flooded, concrete example, by a flooding of Euphrates valley. Red Sea as mentioned in the Exodus, Ethiopia as mentioned in Genesis 2 as land of Kush, mountain region East of North Mesopotamia, known as Urartu, Ararat, Armenia, mentioned in Genesis 8:4.

Consider also that myths (ill-defined word) of a global Flood occur way beyond this, like Altai plains of Siberia or Peru (where Andes replace the Ark and Noah and his wife become brother and sister, like the future rulers of … not Egypt, but Inca Empire, though Egypt did it too).

Marc Robidoux

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

Consider that there is 0 evidence for “a survivor {of a Euphrates flood } who landed in Armenian mountains east of Tigris.”, and you may get an inkling of the value of similar myths arising everywhere there’s a river system as evidence of an actual global flood.

Consider the need for ventilation required to evacuate the methane and avoid explosions, from a small pig farm operation, just as a side point, lol:

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

Genesis 8:4 mentions precisely mountains of Armenia (which are East of Tigris).

Altai mountains and Peru don’t have the kind of rivers like Euphrates which could cause such a major local flood.

The need for ventilation … pig farms are more packed than the Ark was, and they eat much more per day, as they don’t just need to survive, but also to get fat before they go to the butcher. Side point answered.

Marc Robidoux

2h ago

5.VIII.2021

Well, notwithstanding the fact that the Bible is not a source of evidence of anything, if you’re suggesting there are no major floods in Peru, you’re out of your mind.

And your certainty as to how the Ark managed methane is kind of the point of the joke, so you may have answered the side point, but you also missed it entirely. LOL

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

5.VIII.2021

Floods in Peru tend to dry out quickly:

Hundreds of thousands affected by devastating floods in Peru

In other words, not the kind of floods from which you get myths about waters covering all but highest top of Andes.

As to your image, I think lions do like fish … and the Ark was surrounded by them.

“the Bible is not a source of evidence of anything,”

Apart from the fact that it is, and a totally reliable one, even pagan myths and legends don’t originate from thin air (except when concerned with what’s strictly invisible to all human observers).