DIALOGUE: Infant Baptism, Catholicism, and The Church of Christ
The Counsel of Trent | 28 Oct. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JnELgrWyZs
32:42 "it was human death" ... an answer strictly speaking not available to a Catholic
An Anglican or Lutheran or Presbyterian could cite, in support, this:
If so ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and immoveable from the hope of the gospel which you have heard, which is preached in all the creation that is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister.
[Colossians 1:23]
But they would then be presupposing that the Gospel is only preached in human creatures.
If we as Catholics bless beasts, food, plants, objects and even minarals like salt, we point to this verse, we say "all creation" means all creation, and then it means that also in relation to death, and in relation to Mark 10:6, "from the beginning of creation" (no limitation of under heaven added here).
33:25 "it was human ..."
For we know that every creature groaneth and travaileth in pain, even till now
[Romans 8:22]
Here is Dom Augustin Calmet cited (and translated to English) by Father Haydock:
The creature, &c. The creatures expect with impatience, and hope with confidence, to see a happy change in their condition; they flatter themselves that they will be delivered from the captivity of sin, to which man has reduced them, and enter into the liberty of the glory of the sons of God. Not that the inanimate creation will really participate the happiness and glory of the elect; although in some sense they may be said to have part in it, since they will enter into a pure, incorruptible and perfect state to the end of ages. They will no longer be subject to those changes and vicissitudes which sin has brought upon them; nor will sinful man any longer abuse their beauty and goodness in offending the Creator of all. St. Ambrose and St. Jerome teach that the sun, moon, and stars will be then much more brilliant and beautiful than at present, no longer subject to those changes they at present suffer. Philo and Tertullian teach that the beasts of prey will then lay aside their ferocity, and venomous serpents their poisonous qualities. (Calmet)
So, it was also animal death, and especially (if we look at Sts Augustine and Bede arguing otherwise on previous) any wasteful and unnecessary suffering in connection to animal death.
34:33 Baronius was dead even before the first trial where Galileo was involved.
IF he said it, he was probably arguing for the licitness of replacing Ptolemy with Tychonian Geocentrism, Galileo was absolutely not a thing yet, while he lived, not in this debate.
We have the quote ONLY through Galileo, and no early source clearly saying it was Baronius he meant, here are the exact words of Galileo to archduchess Cristina:
Galileo writes: “It is clear from a churchman who has been elevated to a very eminent position that the Holy Spirit’s intention is to teach us how to go to Heaven, and not how the heavens go”*
My alternative theory is, it could very well have been a Cardinal Barberini, a friend of Galileo who at this time enjoyed conversations about the subject, but later as Pope Urban VIII took some responsibility about what Galileo was spreading (in fact, an error, in Bible, in the physics/metaphysics of natural philosophy, and in epistemology).
* As I quoted in:
Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Was it Baronius and Did Galileo Recall His Words Accurately?
https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2024/11/was-it-baronius-and-did-galileo-recall.html
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