... more on Flood

1) ... on Flood - Dinos on Ark, Young Turks, Featuring Sjordal · 2) ... more on Flood

Under

same video as previous post, under the comment of Paul T Sjordal where I had challenged him to comment under mine.

We do get some other themes beside those given in video. Update on St Joseph's Day: Paul T Sjordal gets involved.

Jean-Marc Cloutier

+kodofile

So whenever logic fails just say god did it, you win, cant debate your logic.

Gerff

+Paul T Sjordal Simply look at the intelligence of them in other parts of life also, they aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the box.

kodofile

+Ferruzzicati The Noah's story is in the Bible. Nobody made it up. The reference book is the Bible. So if you want proof, read the Bible.

Second, fossils of marsupials have been found in Africa and South America. That alone debunks your theory.

If you take some basic ecology, and human population courses. Using a half log graph paper to plot the human population, and extrapolating back to determine the time when the first human couple came by, you would be very surprised to see an age of less than 7 thousand years. The Bible is true!

A stratigraphist is someone who studies rock layers and layering. Do some researching. Sorry, for mis-putting an o inside. Lol

+Jean-Marc Cloutier You haven't shown any hole yet, maybe you are just too dumb not to realize that things can happen and blow stupid minds!

john pouw

+kodofile you are a hole an asshole bible is a made up fairy tails,from desert tribes

kodofile

+john pouw oops, make it less sensible and redirect it to your idiotic friends

Ferruzzicati

+kodofile "The Noah's story is in the Bible. Nobody made it up. The reference book is the Bible. So if you want proof, read the Bible."

The bible was made up by its authors. Where is your evidence to the contrary? If you follow that line then you'll be telling me that a woman was made by surgically removing a rib from a man, blowing on it and POOF there's a woman. Believe that too do you?

"Second, fossils of marsupials have been found in Africa and South America. That alone debunks your theory."

Wrong. I didn't say "marsupial" did I? There are fossilised remains of marsupials all over the planet. I said, specifically, Australian indigenous species. Where are the fossilised remains of echidna or platypus or kangaroo?

"If you take some basic ecology, and human population courses. Using a half log graph paper to plot the human population, and extrapolating back to determine the time when the first human couple came by, you would be very surprised to see an age of less than 7 thousand years. The Bible is true!"

So you're telling me that the people on your boat got sufficiently jiggy to produce a global population of 20M by 2500BC??? That's your brilliant position? You really have to do better than that shit pal.

I know what a stratigraphist is. So what?

Hans Georg Lundahl

+Ferruzzicati While waiting for kodofile, and leaving some for him:

"The bible was made up by its authors. Where is your evidence to the contrary?"

The fact that we have very many made up by authors books. So far our tradition about them has not veered into taking Lord of the Rings or Narnia or Sherlock Holmes or Tintin for factual history.

It is a very extraordinary claim to say basically "Moses was a scribe with some imagination, he invented a story and a people in that story that didn't exist, and then that people came into existance by reading his story, identifying with it and taking it for their factual past."

Even Fama Societatis by one Rosencreutz is less of such a feat, since so far it has produced no people, only a secret society, and it is no big deal that a secret society consists of initiates who want to be duped by a great past, reaching to Egypt or pre-Flood.

A people can contain such men, but hardly consist entirely of them. And Hebrew literacy is so democratic that it becomes hard to imagine a very close and tightly ruled caste could manipulate all the rest, as in Egypt or Babylon (or, exclude by silence from memory the non-manipulated). It became less democratic and more close and tightly ruled as a Cohen Magol between Crucifixion and Destruction of Jerusalem invented school compulsion.

"If you follow that line then you'll be telling me that a woman was made by surgically removing a rib from a man, blowing on it and POOF there's a woman."

If a man had done it, no he couldn't.

[Except Jesus Christ who previous to being human WAS the one who did it. He is God, not just Man, though He is fully Man too.]

Since God did it, yes, He could and did.

That is what Adam and Eve remembered, after being told so by God, that is what they handed down over ages to Noah, that is what Noah handed down over ages to Abraham, and then to Moses. In each case the number of generations in between was limited and error not very likely. Pre-Flood generations had so much overlap, that, ignoring how many previous descendants had been told so and calculating only the bare minimum of intermediates, eight different people or perhaps twelve (depending on which chronology you accept) are the "telephone game" spread. PLUS the fact that tradition is NOT a telephone game, PLUS the fact that if Adam could talk to Henoch, so could a lot of other people between them (like "yes, that was what he told me too, two hundred years before I'm telling it to you").

"Believe that too do you?"

For reason just stated, yes.

"So you're telling me that the people on your boat got sufficiently jiggy to produce a global population of 20M by 2500BC??? That's your brilliant position? You really have to do better than that shit pal."

20 million 2500 BC? Where exactly do you get that from?

Jean-Marc Cloutier

telephone game is not a game, its an observation of oral history, but You win, always will, cause when you have no plausible answer all you have to do is... god did it. Really? adam told you.

kodofile

+Ferruzzicati

[Will here divide so as to clarify/HGL]

kodofile 1

"The Noah's story is in the Bible. Nobody made it up. The reference book is the Bible. So if you want proof, read the Bible."

Ferruzzicati

The bible was made up by its authors. Where is your evidence to the contrary? If you follow that line then you'll be telling me that a woman was made by surgically removing a rib from a man, blowing on it and POOF there's a woman. Believe that too do you?

kodofile 2

YES, THE BIBLE PARTICULARLY THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS WAS WRITTEN BY MOSES. IF YOU WANT TO DISPROVE IT, FINE. IT IS NOT EASY TO PROVE SOMETHING, EVEN IN SCIENCE, BUT IT IS ALWAYS EASY TO DISPROVE IT. BE MY GUEST.

SO WHICH ONE EVOLVED FIRST AS OUR RCA A MALE OR A FEMALE? MORE QUESTIONS TO COME AFTER YOU HAVE ANSWERED THAT.

kodofile 1

"Second, fossils of marsupials have been found in Africa and South America. That alone debunks your theory."

Ferruzzicati

Wrong. I didn't say "marsupial" did I? There are fossilised remains of marsupials all over the planet. I said, specifically, Australian indigenous species. Where are the fossilised remains of echidna or platypus or kangaroo?

kodofile 2

LOL!!! SO YOU ARE NOT AGREEABLE TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THERE COULD BE KANGAROOS AND PLATYPUS IN OTHER CONTINENTS AND MAY HAVE ALL DIED OUT.

kodofile 1

"If you take some basic ecology, and human population courses. Using a half log graph paper to plot the human population, and extrapolating back to determine the time when the first human couple came by, you would be very surprised to see an age of less than 7 thousand years. The Bible is true!"

Ferruzzicati

So you're telling me that the people on your boat got sufficiently jiggy to produce a global population of 20M by 2500BC??? That's your brilliant position? You really have to do better than that shit pal.

kodofile 2

CORRECT, AS OPPOSED TO THE TRILLIONS OF PEOPLE WE EXPECT TO SEE HAD PEOPLE BEEN AROUND FOR THE LAST 2 MILLION YEARS. BUT WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE THEAT THERE WERE 20 MILLION IN 2500 BC

Ferruzzicati

I know what a stratigraphist is. So what?

kodofile 2

YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THOSE LAYERS UNLESS WE HAVE A CATACLYSMIC AND CATASTROPHIC EVENT LIKE THAT OF A WORLD WIDE FLOOD.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

+kodofile you answered most on Ferruzzicati, I will just get back to Jean-Marc on "telephone game".

Wait, first this : kangaroos seem to be absent even as fossils from most continents. I think that was his point.

My answer would be they lived on the earth called now Australia before the Flood and came back after it - OR their fossils elsewhere are lost.

+Jean-Marc Cloutier, what did you say about telephone game?

"telephone game is not a game, its an observation of oral history"

It's an extremely bad one.

In telephone game, you get ONLY one transmission from each person, ONLY one transmission to each person, NO repeats.

In oral transmission of history, first observer or observers of a fact can transmit many times over to newer and newer generations, as long as they don't die, the youngest can hear it from dad, mum, granddad and grandmum on pa's side, granddad and grandmum on ma's side, even their eight parents, and so on (ok, for great grandchildren of Adam and Eve, the theoretically eight great grand parent slots are filled by only two persons, and for grandsons and granddaughters of Noah born after Flood, they could ask back no further than grand pa and grand ma).

AND in each case, there will be many repeats. A child repeating a story wrong will be corrected, a child who thinks he knows it will test it and find a lacuna and ask, and maybe even be corrected where he thought he had got it right, and so on.

Telephone game is NOTHING like that.

I was saying that IF it had been a telephone game, so that there had been only one transmitter for each transmitted to and only one transmitted to for each transmitter, which was of course not the case, the least "telephone game distance" between Adam and Moses was of only eight people, according to Vulgate/King James chronology. And according to LXX chronology which allows less overlap, probably no more than twelve people. That is a very good chance for correct transmission, since oral transmission of history is NOT a telephone game.

PLUS the possibility that parts of Genesis could have been already transmitted in writing. Take the chapters of Genesis up to Flood. If they had anything like cuneiform or hieroglyphics pre-Flood, the tablets would very easily have fitted into the Ark.

I just copied them from drbo.org (omitting explanations from Challoner, just text of the chapters), copy-pasted onto a word [=a word document], used 24 typographic points. It came out as 21 A4.

Now, a cuneiform might be more than 24 typographic points, but there were fewer of them than of the letters in English, since writing was syllabic, sometimes even ideographic, and that means we might be speaking of an equal number of great or double number of smaller tablets.

Omitting the intriguing possibility that Hebrew letters on paper might be pre-Flood and thus even older than post-Flood cuneiform writings. Which would have allowed letters at least as small as 24 typographic points, and fewer of them, since Hebrew omits writing out vowels.

In other words, even through Flood, there would have been no big deal keeping the record of pre-Flood events.

From Flood to Abraham, chapters are similarily short and easily transmittable either orally (short enough to learn by heart, if you take one at a time) or by tablets.

As to learning them by heart, 21 pages in English, 24 typographic points = first 6 chapters.

A third of that is 7 pages also 24 typographic points, which very well fit 5 times the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed in Greek.

So, each chapter is ... 2 and a half Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creeds.

Since an avarage person can easily learn the length of ONE Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed by heart, the patriarchs could certainly have learned TWO and a HALF that length by heart at one text.

And this is the final answer to this stupidity about a "telephone game" being involved in oral transmission of history.

Here

I conflate two comment postings. First contains Ferruzzicati's quotes from kodofile (coded 2 above), with his answers. Second contains my answers to these on top of that. I give it in simplified form. Update, two more. First contains mine from first version of this, with Ferruzzicati's answers, second quotes this and adds my answers to those.

kodofile 2

YES, THE BIBLE PARTICULARLY THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS WAS WRITTEN BY MOSES.

Ferruzzicati 2

I don't have to disprove it. You haven't proved it yet. If you follow that line then I say I have a pet unicorn. Prove i'm wrong.

Hans Georg Lundahl

No one except you is saying you have a pet unicorn.

Christians, Jews, Samaritans all have a millennial tradition that Moses wrote them.

So, you are arguing not against one man's whimsical claim, but against a whole nation of Hebrews which has left three religions and some nations (Palestinians - including both Christians and their national heirs of Muslim confession, Persian Jewry, Palestine Samaritans, Shepharads, Ashkenasim, Falashas, Karaites) as heirs to this claim.

It is more like saying "George Washington was one of the Founding Fathers, prove I'm wrong".

Hans Georg Lundahl 1
reduced quote from

Christians, Jews, Samaritans all have a millennial tradition that Moses wrote them.

Ferruzzicati 3

They have a tradition that a giant spacemonkey made the universe in 6 days too, it doesn't make it true.

Hans Georg Lundahl 2

First of all, I would neither use "giant" nor "monkey" in the connexion.

Second, we are dealing at best with revelation confirmed through the history if patriarchs and israelites, at worst with myth.

But this is not in the same kind of merely human credibility as traditionas about who wrote what.

You would never dream of denying Confucius wrote analects, as Chinese tradition has it, just because they also have a tradition of - let's vary the genres, take superstition - Feng Shui (supposing it be superstitious).

kodofile 2

SO WHICH ONE EVOLVED FIRST AS OUR RCA A MALE OR A FEMALE? MORE QUESTIONS TO COME AFTER YOU HAVE ANSWERED THAT.

Ferruzzicati 2

As we don't yet have a full understanding of first life, I don't know. We do have plenty of animals which are both male and female.

Hans Georg Lundahl

I think he might be getting at the fact that each mutation must hit one individual first. The one making a very humanlike ape into a man would first have produced a male OR first a female offspring, which would then have had to mate with non-human not really same species individuals.

One of the very yucky facts about "evolution's implications". Really much worse than where Cain got his wife from on our side!

Hans Georg Lundahl 1
reduced quote from above

I think he might be getting at the fact that each mutation must hit one individual first. The one making a very humanlike ape into a man would first have produced a male OR first a female offspring, which would then have had to mate with non-human not really same species individuals.

Ferruzzicati 3

LOL the famous "crocaduck" argument from ignorance. I'm not even going to bother illustrating how moronic that comment is. Learn what evolution is rather than what it isn't.

Hans Georg Lundahl 2

You are missing that human mind is a difference.

Now, it is absurd enough to argue a mutation could bring it about, but even absurder to argue if one did, it wouldn't matter to a marriage if lacking in one of the partners.

kodofile 2

LOL!!! SO YOU ARE NOT AGREEABLE TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THERE COULD BE KANGAROOS AND PLATYPUS IN OTHER CONTINENTS AND MAY HAVE ALL DIED OUT

Ferruzzicati 2

Why would they have died out in every single country on the planet except for Australia? and where is the evidence that they ever lived in any country other than Australia in the first place? Your argument is non sensical bullshit and you know it.

Hans Georg Lundahl

Here I am waiting for his answer.

[stupid me - I got it, he said they might have died out elsewhere - without leaving fossils]

Mine was, EITHER that OR kangaroos in pre-Flood times also lived on the earth now known as Australia, and settled back to it quickly after the Flood.

Speaking of your criterium, where are all the missing links that are still missing? Where is the evidence that they ever lived in any country AT ALL in the first place? "Your argument is non sensical bullshit and you know it," as you so finely put it!

Hans Georg Lundahl 1
reduced quote from above

Mine was, EITHER that OR kangaroos in pre-Flood times also lived on the earth now known as Australia, and settled back to it quickly after the Flood.

Ferruzzicati 3

We have established that they do not and have not lived anywhere other than Australia. So back to the question, why did they hop all the way to the Asian coastline without stopping off anywhere to breed before catching a plane to Australia and settling there? What's your hypothesis for this amazing feat of travel by 2 kangaroos?

Hans Georg Lundahl 2

They were easy to scare, went off as far as possible and Sunda-Sahul landbridge was conveniently there for them.

kodofile 2

BUT WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE THEAT THERE WERE 20 MILLION IN 2500 BC

Ferruzzicati 2

It doesn't. Why would it? the people who wrote the bible didn't have the technology to calculate those numbers. There's nothing in the bible about light speed or dinosaurs or nuclear fusion or what the Sun is made from or Jupiter or Saturn or anything else that we know now that they didn't know. If your god had written it they would know all about these things. The reason they don't is that it wan't any god it was just dumb, ignorant men, reflecting common knowledge at the time.

Hans Georg Lundahl

And your claim there were 20 million in 2500 BC (a few centuries after Flood, if it was 2957 BC) is not based on God, not on Bible taken as erratic but still history, not on other ancient sources from the time taken as history, but just dumb, ignorant men, reflecting common knowledge at no time, neither then nor now.

In other words, people who prefer the history from their own reconstructions to the history from the sources.

Ferruzzicati 3

The bible is not history. It's fiction.

Hans Georg Lundahl 2

Not what there is a tradition about. No. See above.

kodofile 2

YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THOSE LAYERS UNLESS WE HAVE A CATACLYSMIC AND CATASTROPHIC EVENT LIKE THAT OF A WORLD WIDE FLOOD.

Ferruzzicati 2

Ignorant crap. Go and learn some basic geology.

Hans Georg Lundahl

I think he is in fact talking about very clearly defined layers.

Like x "millions of years" worth of layers all bending same ways - as if all bent at same time when still soft.

I think the one of us three who is ignorant on the real basics of geology is you.

Ferruzzicati 3

See previous on geology. repeating more crap just makes you appear doubly ignorant.

Hans Georg Lundahl 2

Especially in a world where appearance is everything, right?

No, wait ... could it be I actually added a precise argument, and you have no precise answer to it?

End of

this conflation of two comment postings with three layers of comment. Update, four comment postings with five layers, now. AND beginning hereafter is a bit of debate with Sjordal! Yeah! Have fun!

Paul T Sjordal

+Hans-Georg Lundahl
First, the consensus of Bible scholars is that the Pentateuch has something like five authors, none of whom were Moses.

Second, the consensus of archaeologists is that the entire Pentateuch is made up. They can't even prove that the nation of Israel was ever enslaved in Egypt.

Simply saying "Many religious traditions believe the Pentateuch was written by Moses" is an argumentum ad populum fallacy.

So your claim is pretty much wrong every possible way it could be wrong.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

So your claim is pretty much wrong every possible way it could be wrong?

Let's see ...

• "First, the consensus of Bible scholars is that the Pentateuch has something like five authors, none of whom were Moses."
  
  
  • 1) You mean the consensus of PROGRESSIVE Bible scholars. Conservatives obviously refuse to accept it.
    
    
  • 2) You fail to mention what methodology they use.
    
    
  • 3) If methodology had been to accept the traditions, or the best consensus of them, they would never have landed there.
  
  
  
• "Second, the consensus of archaeologists is that the entire Pentateuch is made up. They can't even prove that the nation of Israel was ever enslaved in Egypt."
  
  
  • 1) Near consensus.
    
    You forget people like David Grohl.
    
    
  • 2) With revisions of conventional archaeological chronologies, we can get very good matches.
    
    Obviously this also involves a few percent lower C-14 in athmosphere with a few extra centuries measured by C-14 method as a result.
    
    We are talking things like Amenemhet III being the guy who slaughtered Israelite boychildren. That is about two centuries earlier dating than LXX date for Exodus in 1510 BC (plus add that this happened 80 years before Exodus, thus we are talking of Moses born in 1590 BC = Amenemhet III), and about three in relation to Masoretic or King James dates for Exodus, 1445 BC + 80 = real lifetime of Amenemhet III 1525 BC.
    
    
  • 3) Slavery in Egypt, quoting CMI here:
    
    "In the traditional chronology, the Egyptian oppression of Hebrew slaves would have occurred in the 18th dynasty. The problem is there is little to no historical evidence of Hebrew slaves in Egypt at this time. However, when placed in the 12th dynasty under a revised chronology, there is substantial evidence for Israelite slave laborers in Egypt."
    
    So, as many other times in Creationist debates, the problem which with a right solution solves the other ones is chronology. At least many of the other ones.
  
  
  
• [Implied third:] "Simply saying 'Many religious traditions believe the Pentateuch was written by Moses' is an argumentum ad populum fallacy."
  
  
  • I was not saying that.
    
    I was saying : these exact religious traditions, known to be interrelated, first split among which occurred in c. 900 BC (between Judea and Samaria), incorporate"d in such and such ethnicities and therefore to begin with national traditions (like the US national tradition of George Washington being a Founding Father or the Danish one of Kings being basically same dynasty since Gorm the Old) not only claim to believe THAT Moses wrote Pentateuch, but claim to reach back to WHEN he did so and therefore to be a kind of independent evidence on his writing it as history rather than as fiction. AND of this history being convincing to the people concerned by that history.
    
    THAT is a very substantial argument in the discipline called history.
    
    And even greater one is got by adding to it : these tradition parallels are NOT even rivalled by any tradition giving any other author or any other circumstances for Moses' authorship.
    
    The closest that people somewhat acquainted with Moses and as Pagans not accepting him as what he was came to that was to paint Moses as an incarnation of Dionysus, unless of course much of the Dionysus legend (that about Dionysus' earthly dealings, like with Pentheus) really goes back to Pagan versions of the Moses legend, originally demonising him, before "correcting" it to deifying him - with remaining demonic traits from early calumnies.
    
    That is NOT a sober alternative version about who wrote Pentateuch.
    
    And if anything is at all a "fallacy" of "argumentum ad populum" it is rather saying "_anyone will tell_ you that Biblical scholars agree that ... etc".
    
    Though the second half of the statement, if true, would have been an "argumentum ad clerum". Not less fallacious, always.

I forgot to link to my source for 18th -> 12th dynasty being relevant chronology adjustment, here:

CMI : Egyptian history and the biblical record: a perfect match?
By Daniel Anderson
Published: 23 January 2007 (GMT+10)
http://creation.com/egyptian-history-and-the-biblical-record-a-perfect-match

Lemming Herder

it's called faith, not brains.

+Hans-Georg Lundahl it's not just him, all atheists have pet unicorns. didn't you know? so do Hindus, Buddhists, and taoists. and there are more of us than you.

+Hans-Georg Lundahl there are conservatives scholars? I don't believe you. every conservative I've ever met is brain dead. conservatives believe what others write. why would they need to write the same thing they just read? they don't believe in anything new, they only believe things if they were written before they were born. so no, just scholars, not progressive scholars. that's redundant.

notyourname777

+Wildcard120 Haven't been hear since Feb 13th. You said I mean millions. Don't see what you're talking about. I could guess I believe the earth is billions old & dinosaurs died out 65 million> What did I say billion there? I'm a Christian & do not believe in evolution.

Ferruzzicati

+notyourname777 How can you not believe in evolution? That's like saying you don't believe in gravity. Evolution is a fully tested, observed, proven natural process. You can't just choose not to believe in something that has been demonstrated. That's ridiculous.

Wildcard120

+notyourname777 I was quite doubtful of it myself at one time. However, with new discoveries like DNA, I was forced to conclude that Evolution is a compelling theory that has elements of fact. On the flip side, people should not be so condescending and insulting to people who disagree. Keep watching! 

Hans-Georg Lundahl

+Lemming Herder
scholarship is not just about finidng out new knowneldge, but also about not losing the knowledge you already have, including if someone else wnats to throw it out.

+Ferruzzicati
"Evolution is a fully tested, observed, proven natural process."

Except on that point about mutations leading to gain of information.

Pesky detail which lacks confirmation.

+Wildcard120
"However, with new discoveries like DNA, I was forced to conclude that Evolution is a compelling theory that has elements of fact."

Actually, with chromosomes, I think evolution, at any rate of all mammals from common ancestor might be doomed as refuted.

Ferruzzicati

+Hans-Georg Lundahl Please don't post random lines as if you know what you're talking about. You wouldn't know what "mutations leading to gain of information." even means let alone what the scientific significance is. If it was that easy to dismiss evolution I think it would have been done by now and whoever did it would be in line for a Nobel prize.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

It has been done, several times over by now.

By Creation scientists, including the biochemical Ph D Jonathan Sarfati.

For Nobel Prizes, he has a severe handicap : he is Creationist.

Nobel Prize committee is in Sweden, a country which is mine, but which I left because it is so HEAVILY biassed in favour of Evolutionism.

Ferruzzicati

+Hans-Georg Lundahl You're a deluded fool making up garbage to support your psychosis. Go away idiot.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You are a lout and you are polluting a debate by your lies and bad manners.

I know Sweden, it is HEAVILY Evolutionist.

You may be aware there is a creationist argument about carbon 14 levels rising, and my science teacher in one class would NOT allow me that debate. As said, HEAVILY evolutionist.

As a result of such silencing, one man who wanted to refute me was asking whether I believed the decay rate had changed, even if that is not at all necessary for a YEC. Simply does NOT know our arguments, and Sweden has not allowed him to learn them.

If YOU think the Swedish Nobel committee would reward a Creationist argument, YOU are pretty off target on this one.

kodofile

+Ferruzzicati "How can you not believe in evolution? That's like saying you don't believe in gravity. Evolution is a fully tested, observed, proven natural process. You can't just choose not to believe in something that has been demonstrated. That's ridiculous."

GRAVITY HAS MANY FACTS THAT ARE TESTABLE, DEMONSTRABLE AND REPEATABLE. JUST JUMP FROM YOUR ROOF TOP. JUST GOT TO SHOW THAT IT IS TESTABLE, DEMONSTRABLE AND REPEATABLE.

EVOLUTION CANNOT EVEN BE TESTED, LET ALONE DEMONSTRATED THEN LAST REPEATED TO BE CONSIDERED SCIENCE

Julio Urbina

+Paul T Sjordal im a child and i can poke gaping holes in that paddle boat!

kodofile

+Julio Urbina First seal this hole, idiot. Which inverterbrate organism gave rise to the chordates. And that is very big hole.

+Ferruzzicati You have been weighed, and found lacking.

Ferruzzicati

+kodofile Of course it can be tested you fucking imbecile. Just because you don't want to understand the science doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"Has been tested" ...

Except on that point about mutations leading to gain of information.

Pesky detail which lacks confirmation.

Actually, with chromosomes, I think evolution, at any rate of all mammals from common ancestor might be doomed as refuted.

Any answer to the topic, this time?

Oh, I might also add that millions of years, billions of years is another thing which has not been tested.

Ferruzzicati

+Hans-Georg Lundahl You're repeating crap you don't understand again. Go away moron.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You are polluting a debate with personal insult, once again to cover your lack of actual responses to what I had to say.

I cannot call you "moron", your tactics are actually all you have got.

kodofile

+Ferruzzicati"Of course it can be tested you fucking imbecile. Just because you don't want to understand the science doesn't mean that it doesn't exist."

"Biologists are simply naive when they talk about experiments designed to test the theory of evolution. It is not testable. They may happen to stumble across facts which would seem to conflict with its predictions. These facts will invariably be ignored and their discoverers will undoubtedly be deprived of continuing research grants." Professor Whitten (Professor of Genetics, University of Melbourne, Australia), Assembly Week address.

Who do we take, a professor of Genetics or an imbecile like you?