... on Galileo and the Church (quora)

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : ... on Galileo and the Church (quora) · ... on Whether Geocentrism is Obliging? Debate with Anthony Zarrella · With Zarrella et al. on Geocentrism · Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : With Anthony Zarrella on Metaphysics of Science

After checking

with Rex Dinneny, here is what he wants to add:

Rex Dinneny

It seems you have everything that was said in the discussion I guess I would prefer that you do make note that I am aware of a few errors that I made in making my response and as a result my answer was taken down but no I don’t mind if you publish the discourse

Q

Why did the Roman Catholic Church oppose the ideas of Galileo?
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-Roman-Catholic-Church-oppose-the-ideas-of-Galileo/answer/Rex-Dinneny

Rex Dinneny

A.A Philosophy & Social Sciences, American River College (2019)

Answered 6h ago

This is mostly myth, the Catholic Church didn’t directly oppose heliocentrism (however many individuals within did) and quite honestly direct opposition would be a very clear historical contradiction as the scientific works of Nicolaus Copernicus were supported as well as endorsed by the Catholic Church. Even more ironically Pope Gregory XIII directly endorsed much of Galileo’s early work and heliocentrism was seen as a non issue for the most part despite it being a minority position held within the church at the time. Some 30 plus years later however Pope Paul V sent St. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine to question heliocentrism as compared to geocentrism and instructed him to tell Galileo to give reasons for and against heliocentrism based on his scientific observations as well as point out any possible support that may be evident within the Christian scriptures.

This is generally where the historical confusion begins Galileo took offense to the whole matter and began to act rebellious towards the church on the matter. A few years later Pope Urban VIII sent him to the Roman Inquisition for suspected heresy. Not directly based on his theories but rather on his former attitude towards the church it was also evident that he was publishing versions of scripture that contained alterations in the book of Joshua where it speaks of the Sun standing still. As a result he was put on house arrest the remainder of his life. The Catholic Church has also since apologized for their attitude in the matter and how it was handled in many regards however the story that Galileo was fully innocent and being actively sought out for persecution is myth and as one of the posters has already pointed out his punishment was mostly based on how he handled himself throughout the process rather than his scientific theories themselves.

Even more ironically Galileo's ideas where actually wrong he did not teach that the sun was the center of the Solar System rather that it is the center of the Universe.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

20m ago

“the Catholic Church didn’t directly oppose heliocentrism (however many individuals within did)”

And a cardinal like Bellarmine and a Pope like Urban VIII just count like “individuals in the Church”?

Pope Michael - whether you call him so or not - has reedited “Nine Papal decisions against Heliocentrism”, which you might want to buy and read before repeating what you just said.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

14m ago

“Even more ironically Pope Gregory XIII directly endorsed much of Galileo’s early work”

Gregory XIII died in 1585.

In 1585 Galileo was not yet involved in science that much and especially not in astronomy. Take a look here:

“In 1589, he was appointed to the chair of mathematics in Pisa. In 1591, his father died, and he was entrusted with the care of his younger brother Michelagnolo. In 1592, he moved to the University of Padua where he taught geometry, mechanics, and astronomy until 1610.[35] During this period, Galileo made significant discoveries in both pure fundamental science (for example, kinematics of motion and astronomy) as well as practical applied science (for example, strength of materials and pioneering the telescope). His multiple interests included the study of astrology, which at the time was a discipline tied to the studies of mathematics and astronomy.[36]”

Galileo Galilei - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

All of this after Gregory XIII had died.

So, Gregory XIII’s support for him cannot in any way be construed as support for Heliocentrism.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

11m ago

"and heliocentrism was seen as a non issue for the most part"

Up to 1600 and process of Bruno I would say.

You know the Prima Via of St Thomas involves God as ultimate prime mover of local motion of ... guess what? ... universe around Earth.

This means, turn it inside out, let Earth rotate around its axis, let each "sun" have many earths rotating around it (his view of fix stars) and ... you would tend to get many gods, as a result, instead of the one God due to the one universe turning around the one earth.

This is a conclusion the ex-Thomist Bruno or bad Thomist Bruno had drawn out.

Note, St Robert Bellarmine had the displeasure of judging Bruno to the secular arm (in practise the stake) in 1600.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

8m ago

"Some 30 plus years later however Pope Paul V sent St. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine to question heliocentrism as compared to geocentrism and instructed him to tell Galileo to give reasons for and against heliocentrism based on his scientific observations as well as point out any possible support that may be evident within the Christian scriptures."

And he could not give any good ones.

"This is generally where the historical confusion begins Galileo took offense to the whole matter and began to act rebellious towards the church on the matter."

No, his trial in 1633 was not based on an attitude problem, saying that is simply Satanic, and involves a Molochist view of Church power.

His trial in 1633 was based on his theses that Sun is immobile centre of entire universe (formally heretic) and earth is turning around it and also around itself in a daily motion (at least erroneous).

Hans-Georg Lundahl

5m ago

"Not directly based on his theories but rather on his former attitude towards the church it was also evident that he was publishing versions of scripture that contained alterations in the book of Joshua where it speaks of the Sun standing still."

I don't think that is true at all, he had no printing press. What is true is, he made a heliocentric comment on Joshua 10. That one was examined already by St Robert Bellarmine.

And while St Robert did not condemn Galileo to abjure or burn, he did condemn Galileo's book very much on that basis.

No, it was not a fake Bible with an altered text to Joshua, it was a proposal as to what the text in Joshua meant, and that exegesis is necessary for any Heliocentric believer in that miracle.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

4m ago

“As a result he was put on house arrest the remainder of his life.”

After abjuring two theses, namely that the Sun is immbolie centre of the Universe and that the Earth moves.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2m ago

“he did not teach that the sun was the center of the Solar System”

But that is what Giordano Bruno did, and he concluded along the lines of Prima via (as exposed in more detail in Contra Gentes) there were many immanent gods, one per solar system.

The Son being the Sun of our solar system.

The Holy Spirit being the immanent mover of our solar system.

Other solar systems having other gods, except for the overall creator, the Father.

So, teaching the Sun is centre of the Solar System is not less bad but more bad than Galileo’s position.

Other answer

Crowly Mathew Arackal

I am Christian Catholic.

Answered Nov 16, 2015

Catholic Church mainly objected his behaviour and attitude. Not his inventions.

Please check the link in the answer given by User [dead link]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

1633 sentence had little to say about his attitude and nothing about his inventions, but mainly focussed on two errors one of which was termed formally heretic.