With James Hough on Same Question (quora)

Dialogue with Kira Binkley on Quora about Galileo Case · With James Hough on Same Question (quora) · With Earl Wajenberg, on same question · With Achyuthan Sanal on Same Question

Q

Why was Copernicus not persecuted by the church, but Galileo was?
https://www.quora.com/Why-was-Copernicus-not-persecuted-by-the-church-but-Galileo-was

Answer requested by

Eric Mathew

James Hough

Studied in the seminary, teach Catholicism to converts.

Answered April 8

Upvoted by Robert Wagers, PhD History of Science, University of Oregon (1973)

Why was Copernicus not persecuted by the church, but Galileo was?

Because Copernicus never attacked the Pope, because Copernicus never went back on his word. Because Copernicus presented his theories (as that is all they were, and could ever be at that point in history as there was no telescope powerful enough at that time to prove his theory) AS theories; whereas Galileo claimed that his theory was fact even if he couldn’t prove it!

Actually, considered all the horrible things that Galileo did, he was never really persecuted by the Church, but actually treated rather well.

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

"Because Copernicus never attacked the Pope,"

Galileo lampooned a little known position of the then Pope Urban VIII, as expressed in private to Galileo prior to his election in a character clearly not a Pope in the dialogue, namely Simplicio. Does NOT qualify as "attacking the Pope" in any meaningful sense.

"because Copernicus never went back on his word."

He had never been asked to give a word, and it has been said Galileo hadn't either, the second process was wrong on this account.

"Because Copernicus presented his theories (as that is all they were, and could ever be at that point in history as there was no telescope powerful enough at that time to prove his theory) AS theories;"

A) Copernicus' pupil prefaced his work with a disclaimer it was mathematical hypotheses - that doesn't mean theories about facts, that means constructs making the mathematics easier.

B) No telescope has since proven the theory. St. Robert and Galileo discussed "parallax" as not having been observed, but one which would have had to be uniform in all directions (as much bigger as Pisces gets in Autumn, Virgo needs to get in Spring), since both agreed fix stars were a sphere, a shell, and not a universal "full bag" of stars at a different distance, so the discoveries of Bessel rather disproved the contention that a uniform parallax would be discovered.

"whereas Galileo claimed that his theory was fact even if he couldn’t prove it!"

Since when can a theory be "contradicting the Bible" if not proven, but suddenly no longer be "contradicting the Bible" once it is proven?

"Actually, considered all the horrible things that Galileo did,"

If being right, but not proving it is your definition of horrible - or making a very obscure joke about the person of the Pope - I don't see you as having a very Catholic ethics.

"he was never really persecuted by the Church, but actually treated rather well."

Lifetime house arrest from the trial is not my definition of good treatment. Especially it would not have been merited, if he had been in any way, shape or form right.

II

Scott Bissell

April 8

It was good that church out of Rome admitted they were wrong.

After 350 Years, Vatican Says Galileo Was Right: It Moves
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/world/after-350-years-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html

A bit confusing considering, they are infallible.

James Hough

April 8

Hi Mr. Bissell,

The CATHOLIC CHURCH cannot teach wrong in matters of faith and morals when it is teaching to the entire world.

Individual popes, and others, might appear as “the Catholic Church” and might even apologize for things, but in this case, if you read the actual historical documents and what the Church actually did, they were entirely in the right.

Not sure, exactly what Pope John Paul II actually apologized for, but it sure sounds as if he was trying to make people happy….

Pax,

James

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

Urban VIII was Pope, and infallible. He was not directly trying the Galileo trial, but he ordered it published all over the Catholic world, once the verdict was available, which can be considered as covering the verdict by his infallibility.

1992, someone in Rome was not Pope and while James Hough considers him a saint, and canonised (by another non-Pope), he gave a rather damning evaluation of the 1992 move : “but it sure sounds as if he was trying to make people happy….”

(We'll see if James Hough answers, or if the comment disappears. I am not sure they did before, since I could have put them where he had shared the answer, and not here. The guy has a tendency to treat this Geocentric and Young Earth Creationist a bit like he claims the Church treated Galileo.)

Next day : no, he didn't answer, my comments disappeared, under his answer, but they are still around here, thank God! They are now subthread I, since I added a subthread II)