Zack Pearlman tried to tell me not to listen to Lizzie Reezay

It so happens, I was probably a Catholic before she was even born. Drop probably, I was Catholic by 20, in 1988, and she is NOT thirty.

Zack Pearlman

@Hans-Georg Lundahl There is no other explanation other than Mary had sex. Jesus was the only virgin birth.

“Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?” (Matthew 13:55–56)

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Zack Pearlman It is not said the brothers are also sons of the carpenter, and if they were they can very well have been so from a previous marriage he was widowed from.

Whether they were sons of St. Joseph from his previous wife or cousins, the reason why they are called "brothers" is not that Mary gave birth to them.

Deuteronomy 25 would be an adequate explanation for calling them brothers even if they weren't St. Joseph's sons from a previous marriage, and Proto-Gospel of St. James says they (including himself, the author or purported such James) were St. Joseph's sons from a previous marriage and he was widowed before the betrothal to the Blessed Virgin.

You have once again failed to argue anything from the Bible against the perpetual virginity.

Zack Pearlman

@Hans-Georg Lundahl That's because you Catholic story is edited to fit the lies the Pope tells. The Church of England Bible is truthful and based on the original Scriptures.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Zack Pearlman In normal language, brother (and sister) can be used for full sibling, same two parents, half sibling, sharing only one parent, and step sibling.

In Biblical context, one can wonder whether it cannot also be like calling Booz the brother of Mahalon and Chelion, even if he was no son of Elimelech and Noemi. See Deuteronomy 25. If the reference is not to St. Joseph's first marriage but to cousins, this would be the reason the word brother is used.

English Church Bible for Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

You claim the Catholic story is edited to cater to the Pope's lies?

Here is Douai Rheims (a Catholic Bible) for Matthew 13:[55] Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude: [56] And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all these things?

Challoner commenting on it disagrees with Proto-Gospel of St. James and goes for cousins:

[55] "His brethren": These were the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, (St. Matt. 27. 56; St. John 19. 25,) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour.

Now, you claimed the Perpetual Virginity is "the Pope's lies". When Helvidius attacked it and St. Jerome defended it, the Pope St. Damasus I did not intervene. The Perpetual Virginity was believed by all who translated King James version, and it was believed by Luther and Calvin as well as by Cranmer.

It is believed by Orthodox, by Copts, by Armenians, by Assyrians too.

It is you "against the world" and I mean the Christian world. I refuse to budge an inch from the Catholic doctrine to accomodate to a heretic who thinks he knows Scripture better than the Church.

Zack Pearlman

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Well how many popes have there been since Henry VIII created the Church of England compared to how many Monarchs of England. God clearly loves the Church of England more because our Monarchs live FAR longer than your Pope. Ours is the true Christian word.

We do not demand money from worshipers like the Catholics do or do you not remember what Jesus did the the money changers in the Temple?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Zack Pearlman "Well how many popes have there been since Henry VIII created the Church of England compared to how many Monarchs of England. God clearly loves the Church of England more because our Monarchs live FAR longer than your Pope."

More like : our popes are older when becoming so. Age of many of your monarchs (as with any monarchy), comparable to when many popes became bishops of their first see.

Elizabeth II was 26. Queen Victoria was 18.
Pope St. Pius X was 68, Pope St. Pius V was 62.

"Ours is the true Christian word."

Tell me when CoE stopped believing the Perpetual Virginity. It was not in the time of Henry VIII, for sure.

But seriously, you admitted Henry VIII founded it, while Christ founded the Catholic Church (within four other somewhat realistic options excluding all Protestant sects).

"We do not demand money from worshipers like the Catholics do or do you not remember what Jesus did the the money changers in the Temple?"

The money changers were not collecting tithes to the priesthood. Nor accepting gifts, if a box of spices was korban, they did not see it. (Unless it was from them).

I checked:
Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : English Kings and Roman Popes since 1534
https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2021/01/english-kings-and-roman-popes-since-1534.html

Zack Pearlman

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Jesus didn't Create the Catholic church it was created after his ascension to Heaven. and yes the CoE has never believed in the perpetual virginity. We dont revere Mary. Only the son of God.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Zack Pearlman "the CoE has never believed in the perpetual virginity"

False.

"Jesus didn't Create the Catholic church"

He certainly didn't create any church that started 1501 years after His Ascension!

So, what Church did He create? We can both agree, I hope, He didn't create the Established CoE in 1534. You don't agree it was the Catholic Church He created.

Was it EO, Copts, Armenians or Assyrians?

"We dont revere Mary."

I get a very deep gut feeling you are only posing as CoE. If you had added "as the Catholics do" ... you'd have been believable.

"Only the son of God."

Can you call Jesus God, THE LORD (Adonai) in the Flesh? Do you adore Him?

Or do you only call Him "son of God" and do you only revere Him? In the latter case, it is very clear you are not CoE.

Zack Pearlman

@Hans-Georg Lundahl You no nothing of CoE. CoE doesn't believe in the perpetual virginity, it actually teaches that Mary and Joseph and many kids after Jesus. Also The CoE has never revered Mary, she is just a woman God used to bring his son to the Earth.

This is why CoE split from the Catholic church, because you lot are too pigheaded. If Heaven is real there probably wont any Catholic there.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Zack Pearlman I really don't think you know the CoE very well.

Did you know it has as honorary Reformers : Luther, Zwingli, Bucer, Calvin and Cranmer?

While only Cranmer was actually Anglican, here is Calvin:

Verse 55
55.Is not this the carpenter’s son? It was, we are aware, by the wonderful purpose of God, that Christ remained in private life till he was thirty years of age. Most improperly and unjustly, therefore, were the inhabitants of Nazareth offended on this account; for they ought rather to have received him with reverence, as one who had suddenly come down from heaven. They see God working in Christ, and intentionally turn away their eyes from this sight, to behold Joseph, and Mary, and all his relatives; thus interposing a veil to shut out the clearest light. The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned. (347)

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/cal/matthew-13.html

Let's look at the footnote: - no, it's not clickable.

I looked for Luther, not there, but here is John Wesley:

Verse 55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

The carpenter's son — The Greek, word means, one that works either in wood, iron, or stone.

His brethren — Our kinsmen. They were the sons of Mary, sister to the virgin, and wife of Cleophas or Alpheus.

James — Styled by St. Paul also, the Lord's brother, Galatians 1:19. Simon - Surnamed the Canaanite.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/wen/matthew-13.html

While he founded Methodism, he started as an Anglican cleric. Note, now there is an ecumenism between Anglicans, Methodists, Moravians and Lutherans, so as a former Lutheran I should be very well aware of trends in Anglicanism (Swedish Church, Lutheran, also has High Church, Low Church, Broad Church).

See also some Anglican answers on this Anglican forum to this question:

https://forums.anglican.net/threads/what-is-the-anglican-churchs-view-of-the-perpetual-virginity-of-mary.2064/