Origin of Palestinians

Netanyahu is ignorant of history · Origin of Palestinians

Prof. Aren M. Maeir - Whatever happened to the Philistines?!
Kedem | 3 May 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe4TCYGYQ68

Mo Gh

I am Palestinian, I like this content, scientific and objective 👍👍

Kedem

Happy to hear that!

Mo Gh

@Kedem respect 😊

Hans-Georg Lundahl

If you are Palestinian, your genetic continuity is with Jews, Samarians and Galilaeans 2000 years ago, the part that became Christian. Some of them later became Muslims under, shall we say some pressure from an invader.

Mo Gh

@Hans-Georg Lundahl hi Hans, I agree,partially however, you assume that ALL modern-day Jews are descendants of Biblical Jews, which is not accurate, at some point in late first century AD up to 10% of Roman empire population adopted Judaism, so modern-day Jews cannot be exclusively descending from Israrlites of Canaan, this is evident even by simple external looks, Iraqi and Morrocan Jews are typical Semites, however, a European Jew with blond hair and blue eyes is hardly Semitic looking.

I support the notion that Biblical Israelites were a Canaanite subgroup,I believe modern day Palestinians are genetically descendants of the same Canaanite gene pool, that underwent the gradual conversion from Paganism/Judaism into Christianity and later into Islam. Off course with significant elements of genes from invader/trader communities, like Arabs, Egyptian, and European Crusaders.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Mo Gh "you assume that ALL modern-day Jews are descendants of Biblical Jews"

I assume, first of all, all Mitsrahi Jews are so - they and Persian Jews would be the closest relatives of Palestinians.

The division happened when the ancestors of Mitsrahi Jews preferred what's now known as Judaism, denying Jesus was the Messiah, while the ancestors of Palestinians are those that chose Christianity.

"at some point in late first century AD up to 10% of Roman empire population adopted Judaism, so modern-day Jews cannot be exclusively descending from Israrlites of Canaan,"

Descending from Israelites of Canaan and descending exclusively from them are two different things.

The question is more or less admixture. Or closer and further off.

Mitsrahis and Palestinians would primarily descend from the Semitic population 2000 years ago in Palestine. Much of the admixture would be from Edom, Moab, Ammon - now known as Jordan. Similarily, Jordanians would primarily descend from Edom, Moab and Ammon, but much of the admixture would be from Judaea, Samaria and Galilaea.

"however, a European Jew with blond hair and blue eyes is hardly Semitic looking."

Not so sure of that. King David was not dark haired and a Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem looked pretty European.

"I support"

I support basically the same things, except Israelites being a Canaanean subgroup only gradually converting from Paganism.

"Off course with significant elements of genes from invader/trader communities, like Arabs, Egyptian, and European Crusaders."

Indeed, but at no time did they full scale replace all the indigenous people or even become a new majority.

Mo Gh

@Hans-Georg Lundahl thanks Hans for the thorough discussion, exactly, Mitsrahi Jews and good percentage of Palestinians are probably a single entity.

I believe the core friction point in the relations between Palestinians/Arabs and Jews is the identity definition : Jews see themselves as ethnically pure, assuming ALL are descendants from Biblical Israelites, and that their ancestors never intermarried with host communities.

Historically Arabic was language & culture, not an ethnicity... So any family assimilated in Arab communities and spoke only Arabic language became 100 % Arab, being Christians or Muslims, black or white.

Palestinians think of themselves like any middle eastern Arab country does, a mixed population with uniform culture, Palestinians acknowledge that they are not an ethnic group, many families do track their ancesty to Egypt, or Persia or Morroco, so they are a normal modern population if I may say, historical Palestine was never ethnically pure even before the Sea Peoples invasion, a land fought on frequently and has been a trade hub since antiquity, so it is natural to have skin color and facial variation.

Mitsrahi Jews has been in harmony with local Arabs/Persians , although not dissolving completely, they kept their names and tried to keep their language, but were never treated as foreigners, unfortunately this millenia-long harmony has been destroyed with the advent of Zionist movement of 19th century

Robert Match

I support honesty in history and peace in inter-relations.

Lost Instrumentals Project

@Hans-Georg Lundahl not ALL Palestinians are Hebrews/Canaanites (it's the same people, different geography) some of them are descandants of foreign people.

Lost Instrumentals Project

@Mo Gh physiognomy does not always indicate ethnicity. yes they are Hebrews/Canaanites despite them having "blond hair and blue eyes" and farthermore the european Jews are close to the palestinians of hebrew origin more than they are close to the "mizrahis" so what's upur point?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lost Instrumentals Project The descendants of foreign people are by now also descendants of Hebrews.

And Canaaneans being same people, I disagree, at least the original Canaaneans can have started getting out even in Abraham's time with some early Hebrews taking their places.

@Lost Instrumentals Project Among the Muslim ones, there are probably some who still descend more from Circassians and Algerians, due to a replacement after driving away Mitsrahi Jews in the 1860, than from the Muslim Palestinian stock.

Lost Instrumentals Project

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Abraham didn't exist...

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lost Instrumentals Project Too bad, you are wrong.

Lost Instrumentals Project

@Hans-Georg Lundahl lol... another christian apologetist aren't you? too bad because i can refute your not-hebrew-mesopotamian patriarch all day

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lost Instrumentals Project r i g h t ...
start your refutation ...

@Lost Instrumentals Project Come on ... "all day" - does that mean that you have to dig all day before you get started?

It's an hour since you made your boast, and I'm still waiting ...

Lost Instrumentals Project

@Hans-Georg Lundahl 1. it is believed in Judaic and Christian theology that Abraham was in Canaan somewhere in the second millenium bc.. with CAMELS.. But, camels only came to Canaan in the 10th century bc meaning the first millenium bc.

2. Initially, in the book of Genesis, we get to know the name "Abram" which in Hebrew means "high father" Ab means father and "ram" means "high" or "tall" Abraham" in hebrew means nothing it has no value in the hebrew language no hebrew root because there is no such thing as "raham" in hebrew so the etymology of the name "AbraHam is not from "god's name" since it has no valid linguistic logic in the language. it is probably from Sanskrit from the Hindu concept of oness "Brahman" or the deity "Brahama". Furthermore, the goddess "Saraswati" probably in hinduism connotes the Genesis character of Sarah.

While in Babylon, the Hebrew elite in exile adopted it as they were exposed to the culture and different religions there including Hinduism through Persia.

3. It is said in Genesis that Abraham went from Ur Kasdim meaning Ur CHALDEA to Haran and from there to the land of Canaan.. but, the Chaldean dynasty in the city of Ur (which was initially Sumerian) was only founded in 626 bc so how did Abraham which allegedly lived in the second millenium bc came from a future dynasty which was founded about 1000 years after hew was around. With such Anachronisms we can logically conclude that those writers knew only one Ur, A CHALDEAN Ur that is and didn't pay attention to the dates.

@Hans-Georg Lundahl maybe it's because i wasn't on my phone and i was busy? Didn't think about that right?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lost Instrumentals Project 1) Camels proven absent from Canaan in 2000 BC because of absence of archaeological evidence – first, this is not a good criterium, it just means the Bible is the earliest evidence – as it is for Alexander conquering Persia from Macedon too, it's the first chapter of I Maccabees. Second, it seems this lack of archaeological evidence was recently overturned. Give me to tomorrow to find the source, please.

2) Abraham seems to combine Abram with a pun on Ab Hamom.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from ab and an unused word, see Abram

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from the same as Abiram, see Abraham

"While in Babylon, the Hebrew elite in exile adopted it as they were exposed to the culture and different religions there including Hinduism through Persia."

Doesn't sit well with Moses speaking of Abraham in Exodus. It is a reconstruction about the text contradicting the traditional history of the text. I don't believe that kind of stuff.

3) Ur Kasdim might well be Urfa, and it may very well have had speakers of Aramaic back in Abraham's days, and that being what is mainly meant with Chaldees.

4) I am busy when debating you, and I don't have a phone. I'm in a cyber.

@Lost Instrumentals Project I already found camel solution:

Quoting Lita Sanders, CMI:
https://creation.com/camels

So the biblical evidence is that there were camels in Arabia around 2000 BC, and that Pharaoh had some too. This matches what we see from the archaeological record. A paper titled ‘The Camel in Ancient Egypt’ stated, “The proposed time of camel entry into Egypt after its domestication in Arabia was found between 2500 and 1400 BC”.2 So not only did domesticated camels exist, they were in Egypt when Abraham was there. So this fits the biblical account perfectly.

Her footnote two says:

Saber, A. S., The camel in ancient Egypt, Proceedings of the Third Annual Meeting for Animal Production Under Arid Conditions 1:208–215, 1998, p. 208

Lost Instrumentals Project

The bible is the earliest evidence to what?

2. you know hebrew? You studied hebrew? Well i do and i tell you that there is no linguistic value by the the language's standard in "ab hamon goim" it's nonsense it's nothing terminologically.

Well my dear, Moses speaking about Abraham isn't an "evidence" as the book of Exodus was written around the same time Genesis was moreover Moses is a fictional character too but we won't get into it because it is not the topic

3. Urfa what? Now you are just making things up. It's proven that Ur kasdim is the city of Ur during the Chaldean dynasty not some place in anatolia modern day Turkey. Religous bs is not proving anything except how ignorant it is.

Aramaic developed much later.

@Hans-Georg Lundahl so? It is said in Genesis that Abraham was in CANAAN with camels too. Not only Egypt. I meant Canaan not egypt.

Anyway not only did Abraham never exist he is a very negative character to my people and land as it portrays us as invaders and our enemies use this narrative against us so i don't really care of the little opinion of a christian online. Bye bye.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lost Instrumentals Project 1) In relation to your question, camels in lands East of the Mediterranean, other example Alexander conquering Persia from Greece.

"so? It is said in Genesis that Abraham was in CANAAN with camels too. Not only Egypt. I meant Canaan not egypt."

Yeah, but when he had them in Canaan, he arguably had them from Egypt.

2) Do you know puns? Portmanteau words?

Abraham is not Ab Hamon (Goim), it's portmanteau for Abram and Ab Hamon.

"Well my dear, Moses speaking about Abraham isn't an "evidence" as the book of Exodus was written around the same time Genesis was"

Like in Moses' time?

"moreover Moses is a fictional character too but we won't get into it because it is not the topic"

It kind of becomes that since the only way you can deny traditionally assigned authorship is to deny the traditionally assigned author reality.

3) "It's proven that Ur kasdim is the city of Ur"

You mean Woolley's Ur? How is that identity "proven"?

"during the Chaldean dynasty not some place in anatolia modern day Turkey. Religous bs is not proving anything except how ignorant it is."

More precisely, in modern day Mesopotamia in Turkey, not just any part of Anatolia. East of Euphrates, West of Tigris. How is this proven not to be the case.

"Aramaic developed much later."

Well, if you won't call it Aramaic before Old Aramaic in 900 BC, call it North West Semitic, for all I care.

4) If you had used a computer you could have combined the three answers into one.

5) "Anyway not only did Abraham never exist"

As you have not proven.

"he is a very negative character to my people and land as it portrays us as invaders"

Not against any extant people now. English are invaders in England compared to the Welsh, but the Welsh aren't around in England ...

"and our enemies use this narrative against us"

Ah, you are in a war, and winning it on all sides including the propaganda one is what you care about.

Truth is the first casualty etc ...

It's silly of Palestinian enemies, since they have exactly as much Hebrew and as much residual Canaanean heritage as you. You only separated for religious divisions starting 2000 years ago.

"so i don't really care of the little opinion of a christian online. Bye bye."

You are free to skip a debate, I presume.

Lost Instrumentals Project

@Hans-Georg Lundahl "he had them from egypt"
Yes but there is no evidence for camels in what is modern day Israel in before 930 bc

basically i have proven my point you're just being an arrogant btch as all monotheistic abrahamists are and caliming unrealistic "proofs" to "refute" the evidence i have showcased.

I'm not talking about individuals when i say "enemies" but rather the pan arabistic muslim enemy and his "palestinian" proxy and their plan to not only islamize us but the whole world.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lost Instrumentals Project I fon't think all Palestinians are proxies for pan arabist Muslims.

Especially not all Christian Palestinians.

For Abraham to have had Camels in the Holy Land prior to 930 BC, you need there to be evidence left in the Holy Land for Camels prior to 930 BC? That's idiotic. Most events of the past, most populations of the past leave no physical traces after that amount of time. Textual evidence is not discredited because it isn't backed up by physical traces.

Skipping

some intermediate ones, not directed to me ...

Fara pipsqueek

@Hans-Georg Lundahl but Transjordan was only crrated 100 years ago. And for 500 years, at least , under the Ottoman Empire, there was just Palestine. And there was migration . Especially in the last 200 years. So It would be nice to know if there is any ethnic distinction between a Palestinian and a Jordanian and a Syrian since for several centuries no distinction was made

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Fara pipsqueek I would say, for the last two thousand years, within each community, Christian or Jewish, and later also Muslim, the populations of Judaea, Samaria and Galilaea have mixed with those from Idumaea and from Arabia Petraea (Edom, Moab and Ammon).

Mitsrahi Jews, Christian Palestinians / Jordanians, Muslim Palestinians / Jordanians = Isaiah 11 is fulfilled.