co-authors are other participants quoted. I haven't changed content of thr replies, but quoted it part by part in my replies, interspersing each reply after relevant part. Sometimes I have also changed the order of replies with my retorts, so as to prioritate logical/topical over temporal/chronological connexions. That has also involved conflating more than one message. I have also left out mere insults.
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Monday, January 9, 2023
Beginning an Interesting Video by Trent Horn
It's beginning is not all the best, it gets better at the end of my portion for today.
The "Best" Way to Attract Protestants to Catholicism
The Counsel of Trent | 9 Jan. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqcYHgoyKL4
3:22 Key fault in CSL's view of science - "with their Christianity latent"
A) There are areas to which Christianity or Atheism is basically irrelevant, where God really and truly need not to be taken into account in the basic working of the science, like electronics.
A Christian who writes that kind of science book does nothing to break the blockade.
B) There are other areas, where Christianity can come in as an extra check for personal reasons for someone writing and proposing checks on purely scientific (i e causal or epistemological) grounds. Sure, writing a Genetics book which doesn't extol eugenics or even excoriates it, that's fine. And in fact, as CSL died in 1963, and eugenics left the world in its most open and evil application in the mid seventies, yes, that kind of book could very well be needed.
Obviously, Patton had the merit to end eugenics in one specific country (dear to my heart) as early as in 1945. Hoch Dollfuss! I venture to add, to honour a German speaking Fascist who was not defeated by Patton, who was not into eugenics, and who was killed by a Hitler fan who was a eugenics promoter.
C) Then there are areas where Christianity is relevant on how you view the subject.
In his day, news may not have gone through, but if you accept modern dating methods, and accept the "normal" view of C14, the view that a carbon date of 40 000 BP means a real date not far from 40 000 years ago, well, that doesn't just relegate Genesis up to chapter 11 to "myth" and genealogies in chapters 5 and 11 to fraud, or bungling, it contradicts chapter 14 as well.
If Abraham lived, he was born c. 2000 BC
If Genesis 14 happened, it involved Amorrhaeans getting attacked in Asason-Tamar (aka En-Geddi)
If Amorrhaeans lived in En-Geddi, it was in a time ending at the carbon date of 3500 BC.
So, if Genesis 14 is true history, carbon dating doesn't work as it is supposed to. It may still work if you tweak it, like use Biblical history as calibration, but not if you leave it as it is normally presented.
If 1935 BC (when Abraham was 80 according to Roman Martyrology for Christmas day, older version) is carbon dated to 3500 BC, that means carbon 14 levels were on the rise.
So, a Christian takes carbon dating differently from a secularist. Doing the "science" (or art) correctly, if Christianity is true, and having the Christanity only latent are at obvious odds to each other.
If CSL had cases of type A and C in mind, I am afraid he was thinking in terms of spiritual contagion, for good and for evil.
Same kind of mechanicism of "hidden strings attached" to neutral or good info, as when Evangelicals claim, a Catholic who honours the Virgin is "really" worshipping Ishtar, because "the meme was started by Ishtar worshippers" ... now CSL didn't (or at least not fully and in overt written statements), believe The Two Babylons, but this quote by him strikes me as less and less realistic and more and more concerned with the kind of magical thinking about "witness" that Commies encouraged the Orthodox to spread. Which is ultimately the same as when Hislop wrote The Two Babylons.
So, I beg to differ from the good old man, hoping good is not too far off.
If one is competent to write in science on a field where Christianity is "on the line" - being blocked by the current state of writing - in many cases, apologetics, as competent as one can, is what one should write.
4:14 Some atheists are reoriented when confronted with Creation apologetics.
And when it comes to Biblical scholarship, a Protestant atttracted to a not overtly Christian scholar is maybe not the best win, if one may chose between two.
How about a Protestant attracted to a good creationist apologist?
Chesterton gets marketting.
I'm not getting it.
4:44 "But if whenever we read an elementary book on Geology, Botany, Politics, or Astronomy, we found that its implications were Hindu ... not the books written in direct defence of Materialism that mek the modern man a materialist ..."
Quite so.
Excellent study in Screwtape's tactics.
But does the nature of our case allow us to be simply Screwtapes or Wormwoods in reverse?
Do our obligations do so?
If you want an elementary book on Astronomy with Christian implications, it's called Almagestum Novum and was written by the Jesuit Riccioli.
As long as you have Astronomy on Heliocentric and Deep Space lines as the base, that's with antichristian implications.
Monsignor Knox was giving a sermon on Our Father where "who art in heaven" is not defended about the place above the fix stars where Jesus and Mary are in their risen bodies.
Why? Because he was not prepared to defend a small universe (Chesterton at least spoke the phrase), and its concomitant of Geocentrism and Angelic movers.
But selling a basic text book in astronomy that's geocentric is right now impossible. If you want astronomy with Christian implications, and the strong case for that is Geocentrism, you need apologetics in astronomy.
However, I very little disagree on CSL's diagnosis on what's going on.
I am not saying Academia is conspiring to hide Geocentrism (difficult to hide a daily observation, but they seem to be doing it at least on the conceptual level), I am saying Academia finds its biasses in political hostility against fullblown Christianity. The conspiracies are on a political level, and Fauci just had a very rare occasion for a scientist to participate on a larger scale.
6:18 Guess why I reached out to thank George Werver the other day.
He sent people from Bible colleges down to Italy to do missionary work with Catholics.
My mother made the exact same discovery you allowed some Protestants to make.
Two observations.
A) While my mother basically already ceased to be Anticatholic then, before I was born or even made, she did not cease to be a Fundie.
B) 1960's Italian Catholics were far more Fundie than 2010's US Catholics.
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