Is Zionism a Blameworthy Fault? (Of anyone other than Catholics Praying too little, which Roy Schoemann mentioned)

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Is Zionism a Blameworthy Fault? (Of anyone other than Catholics Praying too little, which Roy Schoemann mentioned) · New blog on the kid: Do I Contradict CCFF on Isaias 11? No

Who's to Blame for Zionism ? A Catholic Perspective
JewishCatholic | 19.X.2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u98EjBq4Elw

Part I, Can "the Jews" (community or individuals not specified on Roy Schoeman's part) be blamed for remaining unbelievers?

[RS cited the Council of Orange]

5:15 The Scholastic theology also says "to someone doing what is in his power, God does not refuse the grace"

Facienti quod in se est, Deus non denegat gratiam.

[RS cited Ephesians 28—9]

5:59 It is also said:

And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead
[Luke 16:31]

And in parallel:

For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me.
[John 5:46]

6:43 "before they condemn somebody" [for not becoming Christian]

As in an individual, I hear you. As a community, things are different. A whole community, which 2000 years ago could still be in the then "true Church" namely the Jewish Church, and be in infused or at least covenantal grace with God, which still keeps as holy 39 books from back then, which hasn't faked every or even most passages in them as to the text, which teaches acts that in and of themselves would prepare to grace, like the alms of an as yet Pagan Eustace prepared for his meeting Jesus between the antlers of a stag, and which also has the promise of ...

See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again
[Romans 11:22-23]

... cannot consist to 100 or even 90 % of people who have no movements of grace pushing ultimately in the direction of Christianity, and therefore cannot remain in that state ("abide in unbelief" seems to be said actively by St. Paul) unless they are doing some effort to avoid "another Beroea" if you know the reference. Such an effort would be erroneous and under certain circumstances sinful. I think that resumes a habit which some have referred to as Jewish Gatekeeping.

[RS cited a few things of the faith, which are, on his view, not obvious in themselves to anyone and not obvious from the OT text at least at the most superficial level.

I responded by copying a large portion of Isaias 11, verses 11 to 16, with distinctions between what Jews can know as allegations made by Catholics and what they can know directly as facts, unless they bother to dispute obvious historic facts. It has been accomplished. I had to leave the cyber, when I came back, all my comments, including that one, were deleted.

I wrote him, and hope to resume tomorrow, either with the comment at 7:21 validated, or starting anew. In a week, this will be published, if nothing more is here, something's wrong.]

7:23 "these things are obvious to us"

Well, what about sth which should be obvious to them.

In that day the root of Jesse, who standeth for an ensign of the people, him the Gentiles shall beseech, and his sepulchre shall be glorious And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand the second time to possess the remnant of his people, which shall be left from the Assyrians, and from Egypt, and from Phetros, and from Ethiopia, and from Elam, and from Sennaar, and from Emath, and from the islands of the sea And he shall set up a standard unto the nations, and shall assemble the fugitives of Israel, and shall gather together the dispersed of Juda from the four quarters of the earth And the envy of Ephraim shall be taken away, and the enemies of Juda shall perish: Ephraim shall not envy Juda, and Juda shall not fight against Ephraim But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines by the sea, they together shall spoil the children of the east: Edom, and Moab shall be under the rule of their hand, and the children of Ammon shall be obedient And the Lord shall lay waste the tongue of the sea of Egypt, and shall lift up his hand over the river in the strength of his spirit: and he shall strike it in the seven streams, so that men may pass through it in their shoes And there shall be a highway for the remnant of my people, which shall be left from the Assyrians: as there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt
[Isaias (Isaiah) 11:10-16]

It may be noted that the only of these verses to have been commented on by Church Fathers is verse 10.

It may also be noted, Jews cite the passage as a prophecy Jesus didn't fulfil. At least Rivon Krygier, a Parisian rabbi, did so when invited to Notre Dame (that was some years before the fire).

In that day the root of Jesse, who standeth for an ensign of the people, him the Gentiles shall beseech, and his sepulchre shall be glorious

Ensign of the people? Jews dispute that but know the allegation. Sepulchre glorious by resurrection. Jews dispute that but know the allegation.

him the Gentiles shall beseech

From Huron to Malabaric rites, how can they even dispute it as fact?

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand the second time to possess the remnant of his people, which shall be left from the Assyrians, and from Egypt, and from Phetros, and from Ethiopia, and from Elam, and from Sennaar, and from Emath, and from the islands of the sea

Note very well, Assyrians ceased to be a power in their own right soon after Isaias. But their heritage lived on and the last texts in the Babylonian languages Sumerian and Akkadian was not from Old Babylonian Empire, but from Assyria, from c. 100 AD.

In other words, even Seleucids (from who the Maccabees were finally left) can count as Assyrians. Germans and Brits can't. We are speaking of a return happening after Nebuchadnezzar and Antiochus Epihanes, not one after Hitler and Stalin. It is today way too late for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

The nations enumerated are given in Acts 2, except Ethiopia, Acts 8. And as the Eunuch of the Candace of Ethiopia was reading Isaias, he was Jew.

Again, the Jews can dispute it really happened, but they cannot dispute it's alleged, and also, they cannot claim it is going to happen a century after genocidal acts perpetrated on Assyrians, as a minority as vulnerable or even more than Jews.

And he shall set up a standard unto the nations, and shall assemble the fugitives of Israel,

Acts 2. But "standard unto the nations" confer also the Labarum and every flag with a Cross in it. If Israel is here referring to the North Kingdom, and not those in Samaria, but "lost tribes" it will again refer to Christians.

and shall gather together the dispersed of Juda from the four quarters of the earth

I have identified the four corners of the earth as (NW, NE, SE, SW) = Point Barrow, Alaska. Anadyr, Siberia. Hobart, Tasmania. Cape Horn, Chile.

I have also drawn lines from these coordinates to the coordinates of Jerusalem by ratioed medium values: (11*Jerusalem + 1*each corner) / 12. (Jerusalem being NE, ever S value and every W value is given as a negative). For some I had to further halve the value even closer to Jerusalem. But the people arriving in Acts 2 come from these directions. The Cape Horn line crosses Egypt. The Point Barrow line crosses Tunisia and then goes between Crete (mentioned) and Libya (mentioned as Cyrene).

The Jews know of the allegation, and they cannot pretend this match between the allegation and the actual directions from Jerusalem to the four corners was humanly deliberate on the part of the author of Acts.

And the envy of Ephraim shall be taken away, and the enemies of Juda shall perish: Ephraim shall not envy Juda, and Juda shall not fight against Ephraim

Acts 8. Since then, within the Church, Hebrew Christians have not been fighting over Temple or Mount Gerazim. The Jews cannot point to any conflict between Christian Jews and Christian Samarians since then. Also, non-Christian Jews and non-Christian Samarians have not been fighting since c. AD 70.

THAT is a thing Jews cannot deny. Pretending Samarians are Goyim rather than Ephraimites is a cop-out and doesn't appear until the Gemarah, centuries later.

But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines by the sea, they together shall spoil the children of the east: Edom, and Moab shall be under the rule of their hand, and the children of Ammon shall be obedient

Philistines were related to Greeks, so Isaias uses "Philistines" as a standin for Greco-Romans. Roman legions have been coming in the years before the Destruction of the Temple, and this made Christians make haste to the East, into the Mountains.

Their place of refuge is "Pella" meaning, not the place in Macedon, but Al-Fahl in Jordan. The founding of the Church in Jordan, back then Edom, Moab and Ammon fulfils the prophecy.

And the Lord shall lay waste the tongue of the sea of Egypt, and shall lift up his hand over the river in the strength of his spirit: and he shall strike it in the seven streams, so that men may pass through it in their shoes

The exact event is unclear, but it involves destruction of Egyptian idolatry and Christianity in Egypt.

And there shall be a highway for the remnant of my people, which shall be left from the Assyrians: as there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt

Again underlining, the prophecy was fulfilled after Jews had been under Assyrian administration, not now, when they have been under Western ones or Islamic ones.

8:50 Jews don't recognise that God has changed the mechanism of Salvation, but they do claim, rabbis or a Sanhedrin or whatever had the right to change it after AD 70.

No Jew can pretend the ceremony with the Red Heifer has been carried out.

And as to putting hands on a scape goat, and sending it out into the wilderness of Judah, that wilderness of Judah is one place which the modern State of Israel has made into a lush place. They made the desert bloom. They made the ceremonies of the law impossible.

9:11 You can as much pretend the OT is enforceable, as, had Noah made a law for Atlantis (supposing it sank around the time of Babel), that law is no longer enforceable.

The OT has not been enforceable since AD 70.

10:18 If Judaism today is, in Romans 11, a result of God's blinding of Jews, probably Zionism is too.

It's beginning to bear bitter fruits. 1945 it looked like a great idea. October 7th, 2023, someone said "this is the largest killing of Jews since 1945" ...

10:46 Noting, St. Paul says "in part" ...

that blindness in part has happened in Israel,
quia caecitas ex parte contigit in Israel

Meaning, parts were accepting Jesus. Both from Judah and from Samaria.

What happened to them? Apart from some of them becoming Muslims at the invasion of Omar and in subsequent centuries, they are Christians and in the region to this day.

Do you know a population of the region divided between Christians and Muslims? A longstanding one? Exactly. Palestinians.

12:11 It was also part of God's plan to harden the heart of the Pharao.

Before this happened, he had hardened his own heart at least twice.

And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified
[Apocalypse (Revelation) 11:8]

Sodom? Pride parade. Egypt? Recall what I just said about the Pharao?

Pretty obviously, the return of Henoch and Elias is not very early in respect to the Second Coming. And given what's going on in Jerusalem, the stage is already set for Henoch and Elias.