Dialogue Under Alice Cappelle's Video

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Alice Cappelle Has a Point · New blog on the kid: I Think a Solution is Possible · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Dialogue Under Alice Cappelle's Video · back to New blog on the kid: Do The French Work Too Little? No. Not for Others · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Welsh Viking on Medieval Peasants — He's Occasionally Inaccurate or Off

TheSorrel

I'm German, and while hating France is a national sport here, we had the exact same Situation years ago and did NOTHING. People whined, people complained, but God forbid you start protesting! Thats just a big no!

So, yeah, keep protesting, it won't get better on its own.

Jantine

Same here. My pension age will be around 70 now, if (as I half jokingly, but crying inside, say) I won't have to work until I'm dead.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Jantine Give birth to people, let your children provide for you!

The channel With The Spookiest Ghost Sounds

I don't hate the French. I just meet a French guy, and I think the French guy is gay, I meet a French woman, and I think she's bisexual. There's nothing wrong with being the former and the latter.

Sam Facultad

@The channel With The Spookiest Ghost Sounds a bit prejudice

Jantine

@Hans-Georg Lundahl As our housing minister said to a young woman who couldn't find a place to live: "Did you think of getting a rich boyfriend?"
- I hope you were joking btw, not kind of serious like he was. Because hell that would be inappropriate.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Jantine I did not speak of a RICH boyfriend.

I spoke of children who could get a job BEFORE you are 70.

You know, if you find the image that comes to your mind when that guy said "a rich boyfriend" very annoying, that's understandable.

If you find the kind of people that could come out of YOU and which would be raised by YOU, YOURSELF, equally annoying, then you are seriously part of the problem - a more widespread one than people earning 229.5 or 225.9 billion dollars a year.

squidward

H m m m m m

Jantine

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Oh my god, you are serious ... You seriously think that people should get children just to take care of them when they're old ...
Yes, that is very rude and inappropriate to say. Not as much annoying as totally gross.

[originally "totally yuck" changed to "totally gross" - she assumed I hadn't understood the word]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Jantine "You seriously think that people should get children just to take care of them when they're old"

Just (in the sense of only) is, as CSL remarked, a dangerous word.

No, equally get old to take care of their children, i e one's own grandchildren ...

And I also think, if this had happened much more in the last five to ten decades, the pensions would not be threatened by deficit.

So, that is "totally yuck" to you?

You are free to block me or try to explain your position.

Jantine

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Yes. It is gross for a guy to tell women 'well, just make (more) babies then!'

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Jantine I wasn't telling that to "women" but to "couples" - which includes guys.

As far as I know women by themselves alone are incapable of making babies.

N

@Hans-Georg Lundahl
it would be ironic justice if you have/had children with the explicit/sole expectation that you chose to create them just so they will provide for YOU, rather than from a genuine desire to provide as much love and support for THEM as you reasonably can because they are living beings and not a means of production -- so you get to find out that your wish for a provider you can emotionally guilt is far from enough to make a generation want to financially or even emotionally take care of a previous one....guess that's easier for you to do than, you know, changing a self-destructive economic & governing system that we can clearly see isn't humane or good enough. We can do better. And I sure hope you do better than this bc that was dumb as hell. Children owe you nothing you didn't give them, including respect for their humanity.

Chihiro Stargazer

@Hans-Georg Lundahl How incredibly selfish to create life just to serve your interests. It's one of the main reasons our society is in such a mess. I can't imagine bringing any children into this ignorant greed driven horror show.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@N "if you have/had children with the explicit/sole expectation that you chose to create them just so they will provide for YOU,"

When did I say "just"? Do you equate "procreate to be cared for when you are old" with procreate to be cared for JUST when you are old"? I don't, and I think the equation is totally inane.

"rather than from a genuine desire to provide as much love and support for THEM as you reasonably can"

My desire to do that may be very genuine, but still be heightened by the prospects:

• I get them and care for them, and have a decent old age after that
• I don't get them or don't are for them, and as a result I'll be homeless and destitute as old ...

"because they are living beings and not a means of production"

Living beings are actually the best means of production.

And people tend to live better by being means of production than by being out of work.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Chihiro Stargazer "It's one of the main reasons our society is in such a mess."

No, you are.

"I can't imagine bringing any children into this ignorant greed driven horror show."

People were saying exactly that around 1992.

Year slices for 65 + (counting medium life expectancy both sexes as 82 + in France) were between 600 000 and 700 000 averaging all the ages.
Year slices for 25 to 49 and 50 to 64 were between 800 000 and 900 000 averaging both sets of ages.
However, years slices of 15 to 24 were NOT between 800 000 and 900 000, they were only between 700 000 and 800 000.

Why? Because people reasoned like you.
What does it lead to? Deficits in the pension funds!

Jannette Berends

In The Netherlands it was also changed, the unions helped to create a new system. It also makes sense to change the age when you look at the total amount of years somebody works. Where our grandparents started at 14 years to work, now we start in our twenties to work. I’ve got no problem with the change.

Turnip Society

Germany has much better négociations processes with union, which some times might be a problem, by nicely "manufacturing consent" down the road of pauperisation, manufacturing a larger and larger lumpenproletariat

Jannette Berends

@Turnip Society very similar to The Netherlands.

Censored

one.

T A

I don't hate France.

Julia Richter

@Jantine But someones kids will provide for you. Inevitably. The younger the retirement age, the more the young people have to pay. And that's the reason why we accepted the reform in Germany.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Julia Richter Exactly - someone's ...

If Germany had had more children per capita, you wouldn't have had to change - but East Germany had got into the Federation, I suppose the Communist era involved pretty liberal abortion practises?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Jannette Berends "Where our grandparents started at 14 years to work, now we start in our twenties to work."

How many want to wait that long and how many had to wait or have to wait that long?

Omitting

some banter on The Sorrel's initial comment (which was kind of a joke), also doing so further down.

CaiXiuYing

@Hans-Georg Lundahl you can't block people on YouTube

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@CaiXiuYing Yes, you can.
Go to their profile, go to "à propos" or "about" click the flag (this by itself doesn't do anything).

Then do the specified operation, by clicking on appropriate item of the following, the first being blocking, the other three reporting:

Bloquer l'utilisateur
Signaler l'illustration de la chaîne
Signaler la photo de profil
Signaler l'utilisateur

M P

This is also the case in Croatia and Balkan generally. JUst whining while they strip us of our right, but so docile and stupid, UNTIL you need religious zelots to protest every saturday morning in the main square.

mrzerian11

Yeah the french people shows how to keep your rights. So sad that pension probably will be impossible for me.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@M P "UNTIL you need religious zelots to protest every saturday morning in the main square."

How so?

Lucia

True

@Jantine My parents told me the only reason why my life is worth anything, is to pay for their retirement

It sucks

Maria Maria

As a Brit, who is likely to have to work until 70.... yes, we also did nothing. However no-one really even complained, or payed any attention in the first place! Those that did take some kind of self-important pride in being such hard workers for so long. Without realising that it's years off their lives being taken from them.

Jantine

@Lucia That is horrible.
I hope you have learned that your life is worth a lot, not because of their retirement, but because of you as a person.

leon miguel

Genau so, du hast auf'm punkt gebracht!

Guinness

@Hans-Georg Lundahl in Ukraine they got rid of the government in 2014, the french should do the same then we can all follow their example

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Guinness Would you get rid of abortionists and shrinks and contraception providers and child protective services as well?

France needs to stop:

• enabling those who want to avoid children and still have sex
• disenabling people who want families, to make and raise their own children.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Lucia It sucks, but paying for their retirement is one thing you are supposed to do in some way or another.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Maria Maria "yes, we also did nothing."

Like, none of you aborted? None of you took pills or bought rubbers? None of you took university in the most inane courses to get an entitlement to work in inane jobs?

I think some of you did some things that were a lot too much.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Jantine We matter as persons - that's one reason why persons should not be avoided by contraception or abortion.

But while one or two can matter as persons without contributing, all who matter as persons need someone to contribute.

Each generation growing up needs an older generation. But each generation getting grey needs a younger one.

Maria Maria

@Hans-Georg Lundahl I mean we did nothing specifically about the government’s proposals and so they became law. Yes, of course we all did those regrettable things too not realising that we were not “free” as we were taught to believe from such a young age.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Maria Maria OK, thank you.

Some things one does have a tendency to backfire because of others that dislike one or what one is doing - but some things backfire because of the things they are, how the results work out.

dezafinado

@Custos more like a whole continent. 😀

Mr. Pearly

exactly same here in the UK

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@dezafinado Anyone care to guess Poland is an exception?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Mr. Pearly But perhaps not Ireland yet, thanks to policies only recently, alas, abolished?

Nørrh Arts

Britain, we also hate France, its like the funniest thing you can say over here and I have no idea why

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Nørrh Arts Because the real issue is a tragedy, so national rivalries come off like a joke beside?

Nørrh Arts

@Hans-Georg Lundahl I do not understand this statement. Rephrase or never speak again.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Nørrh Arts The real issue, abortions and contraceptions have aged countries so much that pensions are threatened everywhere (that includes Russia, where Putin faced a severe popularity drop in 2018), US will have a similar problem in 9 more years, Ireland and Poland may have another generation, with Croatia ...

Mocking each others' nation is more fun than dealing with that problem.

Is the rephrasing OK?

Л.С. Мото

@Hans-Georg Lundahl What are you talking about? People that are born today, will have to work for their own pension/security. They're not going to be able to care for their parents. Young people nowadays can barely sustain themselves with the current housing crisis. Students pay as much rent for a crappy 1 bedroom apartment, as a family paid for a 3-4 bedroom apartment 20 years ago. And even if we do go with your logic - before your babies contribute to the economy and can provide for you or others, you first have to invest in them. A 5 year old is not going to be taking care of you. If people can barely sustain themselves, how do you expect them to now starting fricking at mass, just to make babies? The ones that do that, are the ones that are usually stuck in miserable living conditions and living from scraps, often times not even being able to meet the basic needs.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Л.С. Мото The attitude you describe to people doing that is the attitude that keeps them poor and keeps French and Swedes of the majority from reproducing.

So, change the attitude, make more babies.

Might be more to it, certainly not less.

Alice Cappelle Has a Point

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Alice Cappelle Has a Point · New blog on the kid: I Think a Solution is Possible · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Dialogue Under Alice Cappelle's Video · back to New blog on the kid: Do The French Work Too Little? No. Not for Others · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Welsh Viking on Medieval Peasants — He's Occasionally Inaccurate or Off

(why) i hate my country 🇫🇷
Alice Cappelle, 11 April 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy3F1IbjdKU

1:27 I wrote in 2011 or 2012 - actually 25 of September 2011 this:

Autrefois, la retraite était normalement les enfants. Qqn qui roulait la plume pouvait bien se permettre à rester actif jusqu'à cent ans. Ou, si malgré l'aise physique le travail était mentalement pénible, investir dans une rente, devenir rentier. Qqn qui faisait les chantiers - sa retraite était la conscience et fortune de ses enfants, ou, si ses enfants n'avaient aucune possibilité ou volonté de l'aider, celle de ses camarades et voisins. Certes, l'industrialisme appauvrit le XIX S. les ouvriers tellement que c'était devenu difficile pour enfants et entourages d'aider leurs proches, tous ayant mal à faire tourner les choses en rond pour eux-mêmes, et qqs peu d'enfants. Mais ça n'était pas une fatalité, ça c'était puisque les petits entreprises se faisaient bouffer par les grandes.

Une fondation pour les retraites, que la caisse soit privée, une association obligatoire, l'état lui-même ou quoi que ce soit, n'est pas une tire-lire, beaucoup plus proche d'une banque.

Dans une tire-lire, on y met une pièce, elle y reste et on la retrouve première occasion qu'on veut, si personne n'ait volé de la tire-lire. Une banque ou une caisse pour les retraites ou une assurance n'est pas ça. Ce qui reste n'est pas la pièce matérielle, ni donc leur somme exacte par ajouts successifs, mais la somme des droits acquis pour le futur en revanche d'un dépôt présent. Car la banque ou l'assurance ou la caisse pour retraites va aussi-tôt dépenser la somme, matérielle ou idéelle, en d'autres obligations de versement et le jour qu'elle aura à vous reverser votre dépôt, elle comptera sur les dépôt qu'on faira alors. Dans le cas des retraites, les retraites futures, pour les avoir réellement, il ne faut pas juste avoir acquis les droits par cotisations, il faut qu'il y aura dans le futur suffisemment des gens qui côtisent de leur tour.

Avec la dénatalité, il n'y en a pas.

Ni avec les naissances françaises de souche, il y en a trop peu, ni avec l'immigration, car le jour que les immigrés se rendent compte qu'ils peuvent voter un autre système et ne plus avoir à côtiser aux retraites des gens qui ne sont pas leurs proches, ils changeront le système. Pas parce qu'ils sont méchants, mais parce qu'ils ne sont pas stupides. Et vivre sous leur protection peut s'avérer pénible, encore une fois pas parce qu'ils sont méchants, mais parce qu'ils sont étrangers. Ils ont d'autres expectations sur ce que des vieillards peuvent s'attendre en absence d'avoir fait et nourri d'enfants quand ils pouvaient.

This is an extract from a blog post called "L'Esprit d'Escalier" which is at the date mentioned on the blog "deretour" on blogger, with the distinctive URL-part hglundahlsblog - look it up.

[ deretour : L'Esprit d'Escalier
https://hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/lesprit-descalier.html ]

The title is explained as "Hier j'ai eu une discussion avec un homme qui me paraissait assez honnête. Mais je l'ai laissé parler un peu plus que de lui répondre, après il y a des choses qui me viennent en esprit."

So, if Russia had even worse problems with nativity due to even more abortions than France, why isn't this happening in Russia?

Well, it did

Putin and Medvedev faced impopularity during 4 months of 2018.

After this, Covid and Ukraine have been a very ideal diversion from the pension issue, to get Putin's popularity up again ...

Or Sweden? About same abortion rate as France and lots more contraception ... well, pension system was hollowed in 2003, before I left the country.

Now it's not one central system guaranteed by the state, it's six alternative pension funds under private management, and the state only guarantees an insufficient pension, if that's all you have, you need social welfare as well.

Me at 95 in Sweden, if I live that long and don't get an editor:
"Yes, I'm applying for social welfare this month too, I still have only the insufficient guarantee pension" ...

Meanwhile, the guys who realised the reform was our Social Democratic party, not a right wing one. Social Democrats of Sweden, more effective at making mentalities Marxist than Communism in Soviet Union and so on, but as humdrum and non-magical when it comes to making pensions work with less and less input from young people working.

And in US, which has better fertility rates than France, you will probably have the Swedish model imposed 9 years from now.

4:47 Are executive directors and major shareholders of CAC 40 really in added up wealth comparable to the losses in youth and workforce?

To me, CAC 40 suggests, it is 40 executive directors and perhaps 15 to 50 more per ultra-rich company ...

I suppose the forecast of deficit for the next ten years is such that this might cover, but what about the future after that, if feminism continues to drive down birth rates?

4:55 Yes, certainly, inflations are a bad thing ... banning price rises (and wage rises along with it) could be a solution.

When you do it without collectivisation, it is often referred to as Corporatismo - or Fascismo (io parlo del programma di Sansepolcro, 1919, no della Carta della Razza, imitazione infame del Hitlerismo) ...

I think, and I think it has something to do with immigrants and their less solidarity with 90 year old French persons than young French might have, it may have lowered purchasing power more for old age pensioners than for those still working.

5:08 225,9 milliards de dollars ... est-ce la fortune ou le revenu annuel de ce mec?

Sorry, this channel is in English, my bad ... if it is his fortune, taxing that fortune would:

• delay depletion of pension funds
• but not repair it, as fortunes are also depleted

If it is his annual income, you may actually have a point ... 207 billion € (according to the dollar euro converter on google) ... but one cannot tax away all of it.

And as mentioned, I think this kind of company counts as CAC 40, and I have a hunch this means "40 biggest companies" ...

400 000 times more than a seamstress.
* 40 for CAC 40 (probably he's in the top section)
= 16 000 000 times more

Now, 8 000 000 seamstresses (as said, one cannot tax all of it) are not comparable to all of the work force. Or wait ...

En 2017, selon l' enquête Emploi , la population active au sens du Bureau international du travail (BIT) est estimée à 29,7 millions de personnes de 15 ans ou plus en France (hors Mayotte). Elle regroupe 26,9 millions d'actifs ayant un emploi et 2,8 millions de personnes au chômage.

8 / 29,7 = roughly 27 % ... but probably less, since he's probably not just in CAC 40, but even in the top of that one, with his supergroup.

7:58 49.3 may be anti-democratic, but when Laurent Fabius used it in 1984 ...

Loi n°84-937 du 23 octobre 1984 visant à limiter la concentration et à assurer la transparence financière et le pluralisme des entreprises de presse dite « loi anti-Hersant »

XX

I would as a Distributist like a similar law against concentrating Moët with Louis Vuitton, if you get the reference ...

Sure, you can sell and buy shares, but when a company is as big as all that, not in the direction of an even bigger company ...

Though if you prefer taxing CAC 40 executives over getting more children, you might consider this as "killing the goose that lays the golden egg" ... I still don't think taxing CAC 40 is a long term solution for pensions.

9:09 w a i t ... that they didn't work during the pandemic ... who was preventing the work?

"La présidence Marine" and "le gouvernement Jordan"?

Hmmm ... I think I recall another result from 2017 ...

Could it have been a president who was called Emmanuel, instead?

9:25 On that issue, I think you might take a hint from Manu and listen to what Tucker Carlson has to say about January 6 ...

9:53 I would agree that abolishing Veil, Neuwirth and Taubira laws (I'm actually as a former convict against both Taubira laws) would be a much better hope for France, and indeed for the world.

He is right about the tendency if fertility rates stay the same though ... but prolonging the delay to 14 weeks is not fixing the root problem, it's just the contrary.

That (rather than the sole reform as such) is why, this happened: I walked towards a lycée in Paris I was going to pass. It was blocked, high school students were seated on garbage bins outside it. One of them had a cardboard which said:

- // Tu pues le Camembert, Macron //
- "C'est pas un peu le manque de respect?" (dis-je)
- "Oui, mais lui, il nous manque le respect" (dit-il)
- "Non, je parlais du Camembert" (dis-je)

If he was referring to a specific Camembert from a producer that also makes butter, I understand the joke weeks later (speaking of "esprit d'escalier" ...) ... I have a preference, when I buy Camembert, to buy Le Rustique, monarchist, as I am ...

11:22 If you ask me, World War I was a huge mistake, and with all my Germanity, though I am not actually a German, a certain paradigm in Berlin or rather Potzdam was to blame ...

One of the casualties beyond the battle field was ... a more normal way of producing things. I don't recall whether Historia said 50 % were independent or 90 % independent and within them 50 % independent farmers, back in 1900, but that kind of production was so much less concentrated that Moët + Vuitton = zéro chance. Or that meme from Princess Bride "you mean there is a chance?"

TheSorrel

While World War 1 is the genesis of basically all international politics atm, capitalism has existed before that.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@TheSorrel I didn't say the casualty was Primeval Communism. I don't believe in that.

I said it was "a more normal way of producing things" - which very much fits the bill for France, if not England, in 1900.

In World War I, lots of small farmers were drafted, the crops weren't neglected, but confided to tractors so fewer people could do them. After the war, tractors remained and farmers started losing out.

In England, a similar process had happened in two stages - Reformation era involved "commons" (a piece of land kept in common by the farmers of a village) started to be enclosed as private property of landlords. This made it far easier to "go broke" as a farmer.

In the Napoleonic wars, many farmers then actually went broke. The corresponding moment to the Napoleonic wars in England was World War I in France.

I wonder if some Monarchist would argue the moment corresponding to Enclosures in England was the French Revolution. Certainly the "guilds" - in French "jurandes" were abolished first in England in the Reformation and then in France by "La loi Le Chapelier, promulguée en France le 14 juin 1791" ...

17:20 "exactly what Putin does"

Same problem, with some years difference in timing:

abortion -> low fertility -> bad funding of pensions

Same solution preference:

banning abortion? no

taxing the rich more? no

make people work longer? you nailed it

Same reaction to it:

riotting (in Russia it was 2018) (without, Navalny like CGT, without suggesting abortions should be banned)

Same reaction to the reaction:

harder repression

motivating the harder repression by a fake terrorist or extremist label on opponents ...

Tovia Singer is Acting For Antichrist

Mainly sharing because Trent Horn does good apologetics here:

REFUTING a Rabbi on the Resurrection (REUPLOAD)
The Counsel of Trent, 10 April 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qZnkRoodg

But also to defend Christians from Singer's pro-psychiatric tyrannies:

13:25 [About Tovia Singer] An evil man who praises haldol ... it's a chemical torture instrument.

The idea of someone hallucinating is heavily over-used in order to be able to apply haldol and other tortures.

But he misses the point further, because none of the exorcism accounts matches a classical clinical account of psychosis. Neither in the stage when a person is still possessed, nor in the stage when the demon is or has been driven out.

I have seen people argue that the young man who was thrown into water and fire was suffering epileptic fits - seriously? How would epileptic fits be so selective as to throw someone specifically into water and fire?

Either way, Tovia Singer is totally in the Soviet (and probably Israeli) tradition of politically Antichristian abuse of psychiatry. A curse on him.

Tovia Singer is also wrong to state that madness as distinct from demonic possession was not considered a thing.

Daniel 4 doesn't say anything of demonic possession. And yet, arguably, Nebuchadnezzar was not just treated but described as mad.

Trent Horn makes one bad concession to Jews, Jesus supposedly not having fulfilled Isaiah "11 and 25" ... for 25, I haven't checked so far.

21:53 You didn't say "Isaiah 11:25" - does not exist - you said "Isaiah 11 and 25" ...

Now, Isaiah 11, from verse 10 on, already has been fulfilled from the Resurrection, up to when Egypt and Mesopotamia became Christian countries as opposed to Kemetist and Caldanist/Zuist ones.

Sharing

The Conspiracy of Christ
Brian Holdsworth, 7 April 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1rSNi5lH4I

Kennedy Hall vs Bergoglio on Heaven and Hell

Kennedy Hall vs Evolution : Correct Side, Good Will, Some Things to Catch Up On · Kennedy Hall vs Bergoglio on Heaven and Hell

If I were a teacher, I'd grade this one by Kennedy "par nobis" - just needs an upgrade on Geocentrism.

More HERESY from Pope Francis... Denies HELL and the BIBLE
The Kennedy Report, 5 April 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWhNaAy0-Do

Let me get sth straight, unlike Antipope Wojtyla of unhappy memory and his faithful successor Antopope Bergoglio, while not denying that Heaven and Hell imply states, you agree with tradition they are also places, since they will contain risen bodies, right.

We can agree with Dante, Hell is around 6300 km below our feet (centre of the Earth), but if you accept modern cosmology, where do you place Heaven?

As I am Geocentric, I don't believe "parallax" usually so called is parallactic, it tells us nothing about how far alpha Centauri or Vega is from us, I can go with fix stars are one light day up and Heaven above that, more specifically, as a city called Heavenly Jerusalem, it is above the coordinates of earthly Jerusalem.

But what would you say if you were Heliocentric?

A Geocentric interpretation of Joshua 10 is not just given by the Church specifically Church Fathers alike with the tribunal of 1633 and before that St. Robert Bellarmine - but also from a consideration I heard yesterday. An Evangelical (who also inspired my essay on how the Bible says it has 72 to 73 books, whereof 45 to 46 in the Old Testament, yesterday) said, if Jesus had not added the vocative "Lazare" all the dead would have come out. This is somewhat implausible, since that would have been a plural, and the imperative in His Aramaic or Hebrew or Greek would have been a singular, but the principle stands ... He called out the name of the one who was going to be directly involved in the miracle.

Joshua in verse 12 did not say "Earth, cease turning for a while" if you see the relevance.

4:00 You probably know Spanish better than I, and I would have translated "enfrente a" as "in face of" or (with non-physical "preposition objects") even "as relates to" - not as "against."

Obviously, in the case of physical objects, I would come to think of it certainly accept "against" like "we were fighting against" because the enemy lines are the lines facing one ....

en frente = in frontem (and example of "frons" meaning the whole face, not just what's above the eyebrows).

9:25 Is there any pre-schism and Western father who says the fires are metaphorical?

I think the Studite, while living pre-schism, was canonised by Eastern Orthodox.

Theodore the Studite.

St. Augustine, considered:

• the fire is literal
• the worms are metaphorical
• in errors, it's more tolerable to take the worms literally than the fire metaphorically.

I look up Theodore the Studite ... wiki says:

Venerated in Eastern Orthodox Church, Eastern Catholic Churches, Roman Catholic Church
Feast 11 November (East), 12 November (West)

However, I look up the traditional martyrology, for november 11 and 12 - sorry, on 11 I did find this:
Constantinopoli sancti Theodori, Abbatis Studitae, qui, pro fide catholica adversus Iconoclastas strenue pugnans, factus est apud universam Ecclesiam catholicam celebris.

OK, he's venerated in the Catholic Church as well, didn't know ....

12:03 You have an Italian mother right - am I right that Italy was better at holding out against Evolutionism than some other episcopacies?

I read in Christine Pedotti that the document which eventually became Dei Verbum, the original draft (schema as the drafts were called) by Ottaviani intended to dogmatise sth like "everything was created by God the same way that the Bible describes it" ... I have tended to put that down to Italian Catholics being or having been fairly long better at rejecting Evolutionism.

Am I right? Other thing I interpret this way is my mother becoming moderately pro-Catholic after going to Italy.

Operation Mobilisation actually got young people as missionaries to Italy, to tell those Italian idol worshippers and whatever about Christ, my mother went there, and realised "oh, they actually already are Christians" .... I highly doubt she would have come to that conclusion if they had been diehard defenders of Neo-Darwinism, ridiculing Creationism.

14:14 Saying "myth is a way of knowing things" is in and of itself innocuous - unless you add the actually egregious "differring from history" ...

Genesis was probably finally compiled as a whole by Moses on Sinai, with the vision of the six days being granted him while he was on Sinai.

But the portions after the six days' account were recorded by the people involved (from Adam and Eve to Joseph and his sons Ephraim and Manasseh) and inherited by Moses.

Pagan myths are nearly always false in theology, I can't think of any that isn't, but, except when they conflict with Biblical history (like Babylonian myth is wrong on the shape of the Ark), mostly correct history.

22:01 Would you agree it is possible that God dividing the waters was an act of electrolysis, and that "waters above the firmament" are mainly hydrogen molecules, and that this is what God made Sun and fusioning stars from? Obviously two days or c. 48 hours later on.

If this is true, the light on day one had to be supernaturally held in place (like accidents without a substance) rather than come from a light source, or it would not have been able to reach down through all that water to earth ....

Kennedy Hall vs Evolution : Correct Side, Good Will, Some Things to Catch Up On

Kennedy Hall vs Evolution : Correct Side, Good Will, Some Things to Catch Up On · Kennedy Hall vs Bergoglio on Heaven and Hell

Catholic Church teaching on Evolution
The Kennedy Report, 5 April 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVhv7Q5mohw

5:08 Such adaptations you speak of now are not micro-evolution, since they involve no genetic change. Confusing the two is Lamarckism.

If you moved to a warm climate, your hair would remain relatively straight (actually "wavy" rather than technically "straight"). If a Nigerian moved to UK, not only did his hair remain curly, but he gave curly hair as part of the genetic heritage to Calvin Robinson.

Between Adam and us, some line must have gone from curly hair to straight, or from straight to curly. And within straight, from wavy to technically straight or from technically straight to wavy - unless both came from curly separately. That's a mutation, and whether it involved adaptation or not, it was selected for and offspring was produced.

5:54 I would say, speciation or change of species still would fall within micro-evolution.

Baraminologists have stated and I agree, the Biblical kinds are usually not species or even genus, but things as broad as families or subfamilies.

We have five genus of hedgehog that add up to seventeen species of hedgehog. I am fairly confident, there was one pair of hedgehogs on the Ark.

Possibly, gymnures too descend from it ... (hedgehogs are a subfamily, hedgehogs and gymnures together a family).

The exception would be man. Adam's descendants are not limited to species "Homo sapiens" but include some fossil species - but only of genus "Homo" ... three pre-Flood races or to anthropologists "species" are what we descend from today : "Homo sapiens, Homo Neanderthalensis, Homo Denisovae" - I would go as far as to say that this also involves the Antecessor of Atapuerca (committing cannibalism "in the days of Noah" - confer Matthew 24, and yes, cannibalism is on the rise in crime records, even if it has fallen in missionary fields) and the Homo heidelbergensis, since Antecessor and Heidelbergensis share the same morphology (Heidelbergensis has no genetic tests, apart from Antecessor), and Antecessor (or Heidelbergensis in Atapuerca, as some prefer) shares the specific genes with Denisovans.

I would say, Noah found some inlaws in Spain, where Denisovans (aka Antecessor) lived in Atapuerca, and Neanderthals in El Sidrón. I mean, daughters in law.

12:15 Taking a cue from already accepted Catholic Creationist Dominic Tassot, and elaborating as a more or less linguist - a person who had non-human progenitors would have a huge problem learning to speak.

Stating Adam was a baby and his progenitors weren't human, would make him a feral child.
Stating Adam was a baby, his parents were human too, would make him not the first man.

The one involves God being wantonly cruel to Adam before he sinned. The other involves God being wantonly cruel to us when we don't inherit original sin from a first parent.

I have challenged Jimmy Akin to provide the quotes from Osservatore Romano, sixties, where theologians pretended to have found ways around the restrictive parts of Humani Generis - he hasn't.

15:33 Penicilline works against some bacteria - garlic is more universal basically all bacteria, and virus too.

Penicilline is naturally present in blue cheese.

16:01 Two very notable examples:
a) no one has observed a beast kind or species of it evolve language comparable to human language, with infinite productivity of statements
b) no one has observed a new cell type evolve in the body of any creature.

Man has, on a low count, 111 different types of cells in the body.

Evolutionary theory requires man to have evolved from a one celled organism, which by definition has only one cell type in the body. New cell types are definitely not observed. An estimate is new cell types except nervous cells evolved at a rate of 1 every 3 million years. An event that happens once every three million years, nearly by definition is not an observed event.

Back to a) - all "fossil hominins from the ancestry of man" fall into three classes;
i) those that have human ears (or much more human than chimp ears), area of Broca (visible in the skull), human hyoid, human FOXP2 if genetically tested
ij) those that have half chimp ears, no area of Broca, ape hyoid
iij) those where the remains are indecisive on one or more points, perhaps all, permitting no firm conclusion
and exclude:
iv) "those that clearly combine traits of i and ij" (non-extant group).

Meaning - you either have speech or "you" haven't.

21:59 No Church Father thought the world could even be 10 000 years old.

Origen mentioned that exact number, but specifically said "less than" - and given that at least all LXX based Biblical chronologies put Creation 5200 - 5500 before the birth of Our Lord and Saviour, he could not say "less than 5000 years" - and picked 10 000 years as next round number, which was certainly too big.

24:30 He never uses in the relevant paragraph the word "believe" about Adam's non-human biological origin.
He never directly says "you may" about discussing.
He says "the magisterium does not forbid" which is simply a wavering of otherwise possibly applicable bans, not a lifting of them.
And the action the magisterium does not forbid is discussing.

Now, he specifically said "of both sides" but I think you misinterpret that in saying anyone speaking on the subject must teach both pros and cons and refrain from making up his mind, it actually means, he was (verbally and in that document, whatever his attitudes outside it) inviting to a debate like between you or me and Jimmy Akin (who is alas Evolutionist).

The qualification involved is being "expertus" in both science and Bible, whether that means each participant has to be it in both, or each side must involve both types of participants. However, "expertus" does not mean the noun "expert" which didn't exist. Romans have no general word for "expert" - they have specific words for specific types of what we would consider experts, but they do not have a habitual concept, enshrined in a separate word, for expertise as such.

One more important point. He never says that the deference to the judgement of the Church needs to be before a future such decision. In other words, at least verbally, he does not exclude the deference I claim to have for Patristic Unanimity as per Trent Session IV or Adam's individuality as per Trent Session V (he himself actually underlined the necessity for that one, by condemning polygenism).

24:56 We were languages and literature at university.

Karl Keating before getting full time into Catholic answers was a lawyer. Introibo, a sedevacantist, who supports old age creationism, and a separate creation of Adam, still is a lawyer.

Now, what lawyers are exposed to at university is necessarily modern. Yes, you have to study Roman law, but not as intensely as say, case law of the last 200 or even 100 years.

If Introibo had been in a Novus Ordo parish, the risks are, he would be as supportive of even polygenism as Karl Keating and Jimmy Akin.

For Jimmy Akin it could be an exaggerated repentance of his former Presbyterianism ... (and he's 15 years younger than Karl Keating).

"evolution is not Church teaching"

When I converted in 1988, while Mgr Lefebvre was still in Communion with "John Paul II" and Pope Michael hadn't been elected yet, it wasn't.

Unfortunately, early 90's (including § 283 of the CCC) has added a "Church teaching" in favour of "modern science" for those believing "John Paul II" was pope and effectively used papal powers. Other examples is replacing "5199" with "unknown centuries" and in US even "unknown ages" in the Christmas proclamation.

26:23 One could imagine two Biblical scholars with no science background but different hunch about the value of "modern science" debating the Biblical side, while two Scientists debate the scientific side ("is evolution from lower life forms a proven?") ... but unfortunately this kind of programme was never actually implemented.

One could also imagine one and the same man on the same side filling in for both fields.

Note, as said, no word about the participants having to be university accredited experts in the fields, since that is not what "expertus" means in Classical Latin.

28:10 I am afraid, Pius XII de facto gave a blank check to people who advocated Adam's body being born from non-human progenitors.

In other words, he was on this point a lazy watchdog.

The other thing that overtly and certainly happened is, moral theologians who would not want to indict Pius XII for allowing heresy to be defended - even if that is what he in fact did, and this was about as bad as or worse than Pope Honorius - concluded from the document that:
a) it must be licit to be for evolution
b) at least tentatively
c) hence, no either Biblical nor Scientific expertise could be allowed to contradict the licitness

This is why, as far as I know, the 50's and 60's saw no huge confrontation of expertise against evolution.

A secret judgement of God, concludable from what I know from Romans 1 and can conclude from news stories is, in the 40's, when some people were assuming Adam born of two anatomical Homo sapiens who were not really human yet, the one and only form of the challenge Pius XII had specifically allowed, some concluded God had committed to Adam the cruelty of creating him as offspring of non-humans, had justified this by paedagogic reasons, and, as the real God handed them over to their basest desires, they concluded pederasty could have a paedagogic function too.

It's in the 40's - not the 60's - that the stories from victims of child abuse start. I specifically checked when the report came out, if there had been victims in the 30's, they could be still surviving and claiming damages.

"favourable to evolution" in this paragraph is obviously referring to "favourable of an evolutionary origin of Adam's body" ....

30:07 "most recent authoritative"

I think Pius XII was about as authoritative as Pontius Pilate washing his hands ...

29:34 There has been no judgement of the Church subsequent to this, unless you consider John Paul II was Pope in the early 90's ...

Either way, there has been a judgement of the Church prior to this, it's called the Council of Trent. Both Sessions IV and V are relevant.

31:31 Jimmy Akin would obviously pretend that during the "pontificate" of "John Paul II" the new facts would have overturned this preliminary (and formulated as preliminary) caution.

I approve of your disapproval of Evolution. I have more issues with your whitewashing Pius XII being a good Pope and "John Paul II" being even a Pope at all ...

Pius XII unfortunately drew up some of the lines so that the subsequent apostasy was possible.

32:19 Star fusion is not invoked to explain hydrogen.

However, hydrogen needs to be explained. If Hydrogen is all the time turning into Deuterium and Deuterium into Helium, or sometimes Deuterium + Hydrogen => Tritium, and Tritium + Hydrogen => Helium, any finite amount of Hydrogen would in infinite time be depleted an infinite time ago, and even assuming an infinite amount of Hydrogen but with finite density, the density of Hydrogen anywhere in stars would also already have become a density of Helium.

Eternal steady-state universe is out - Duns Scotus was right - and this makes for problems for an atheistic or evolution believing world view.

35:16 Chemicals do form amino acids in certain conditions.

The actual problem, handled better by CMI than by Kolbe Institute, is, the amino acids so formed come in both chiralities, there is no membrane, the chemicals in membranes are very different from the amino-acids formed in the Miller-Urey experiment, the chemical reactions do not provide useful information for the so formed amino-acids, I found one more myself if it is not just a miss on my part, some of the amino-acids actually needed in life are absent from what those processes form.

38:06 For radiocarbon, I differ.

It does not give absolute and correct values, but it gives values relatively in the right order.

For an object from the Flood to carbon date at 39 000 years ago, which I think is the correct value, based on the eruption of Campi Flegrei, dated by volcanic ash, organic things burning up by heat and falling down as ash with carbon residue, it needs to have started out with 1.625 pmC. The 1950's atmosphere had somewhat less than 100 pmC in the ratio of carbon 14 to carbon 12. This seems to have been reached (averaging on the value of 100 pmC), at the Fall of Troy. In the time from the Flood to the Fall of Troy, 1772 years, the medium production of carbon 14 was five times as fast as now.

This means that for these times, there are two processes making sure that the older samples have less carbon 14 than the more recent ones.
a) as usual, the more time goes since a sample is cut off from carbon additions from the atmosphere (directly in green plants, indirectly in animals and saprophytes), the less is left of it;
b) but also the more recent a sample is, the more carbon 14 it had to begin with.

Excepting exceptions, like nearby Uranium adding more neutrons, therefore more carbon 14 to a sample (even if it is closed off, neutrons spread inward), and therefore dating younger - or like animals ingesting old carbon dating older.

The painting from last century, stolen from an art class and carbon dated to 1200 years old, probably had acrylic paint. Acrylic paint is a petrol product, and petrol means carbon that cased breathing in an atmosphere with 1.625 pmC, not 100 pmC, 5000 years ago. It is therefore a radical example of this "reservoir effect" ...

After carbon 14 reaches 100 pmC (or therearound) we do have wiggles of varied original carbon 14 - leading to varied discrepancies between the raw carbon date and the actual age, whether it's accessible before carbon dating, as part of the calibration, or accessible after it, through the calibration.

All dates between 760 / 750 and 450 BC carbon date, with very few exceptions, as 550 BC.

This would explain why archaeologists pretend that Rome was founded 550 BC, they did their dating before the calibration was available, but it is arguably the greatest wiggle. Because it is the one used by a Creationist "against the reliability of carbon dating" ... and this would be clearly inferior to a radically higher production speed leading to the rise between Flood and Troy, faster between Flood and Babel than between Babel and Genesis 14, faster between Babel and Genesis 14 than between Genesis 14 and fall of Jericho (1470, carbon dated to 1550), and from then to Fall of Troy, we have no faster rise than compatible with later wiggles.

38:25 "influx of radiocarbon into earths atmosphere" - I'd like to know how that argument goes, I think this might be a bad argument, one not to use.

38:40 They missed out on the fact that land vertebrates when found as fossils are generally just one layer in each locality.

You find a pterodactyl in Ankerschlag, in Tyrol, I think Jurassic, well, you can't dig below it and find Permian land or sea creatures below it.

You find a whale in Linz, Upper Austria, you can't dig below it and find pterodactyls under it. Just for the record, Ankerschlag is about 300 km West of Linz (about same distance from Mount Judi to Göbekli Tepe, symbolically, since whales are air breathing creatures that survive in the sea, see Ark, and pteordactyls are monsters that soar upward, what Tower of Babel was meant to) ... and it is also far higher above sea level.

IF evolution were true, you would expect something like Grand Canyon (with several different layers, but only of sea creatures) to exist for land animals. If it exists, I haven't heard of it. And yes, I have scoured both wikipedia and google site palaeocritti for land vertebrate fossils found in layers above and below each other, has not happened.

Homer's Hittite Background

On Homer's Trojan War · Homer's Heritage · Homer's "Illiad" as it was misspelled - a Quoran asked on accuracy · Homer's Hittite Background

From Hittite to Homer
by Mary R. Bachvarova (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Hittite-Homer-Mary-R-Bachvarova/dp/1108994105/

A Hittite Version of the Trojan War?!
Lantern Jack, 28 Nov. 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ao2sps9bR4

1:13 ObjectionS, your honour.

1) Hattusha might have ended prior to the Trojan war.
2) Hattusha sometimes had a tense relation to Troy, and Greeks didn't exactly lay territorial and sovereign claims to Troy.
3) Walter Leaf argued BOTH Troy AND Achaean Greece were "satrapies" under Hattusha. That would make the Trojan war a civil war within the Hittite Empire ... but this was argued before we could say Hattusha ended c. 20 years before the Trojan War.

13:21 There is one Greek word that could originally mean "Hittite" ethos - the original meaning being "tax" or "duty" in "tax/customs" sense ... Heth would become Eth by dissimilation of aspiration.

And obviously, if Hittites were tax collectors either in Greece or even just Troy, one can very readily understand why the memory was erased, only the Bible recalls them.

Similarily, assume Babel was a real event, a real fiasco for the first empire builder, and there is very probably a deliberate erasing of the memory, and - again - only the Bible recalls it.

34:30 Milawata letter - I look it up and find it's from c. 1240 BC.

Since Troy was destroyed in 1179 BC, this letter would be talking about an earlier conflict, which might have led up to the Trojan War.

Tawagalawa letter - c. 1250 - would have been about "avoiding the Trojan war" - which would have been more feasible while Hattusha remained a power.

34:39 "If you want to believe in a Trojan war, have it it!"
34:47 "Troy six was destroyed in 1300 maybe, but that probably was an earthquake."
34:57 "Troy seven A was destroyed seemingly in some kind of war in 1180, that would be too late for the Hittites"

Exactly - too late for the Hittites and the carbon 14 date matches the historic date according to Eratosthenes.

1200 destroying Hattusha would be the reason this war is not recorded in Hattusha.

Apart from Greeks picking the part of looters for themselves, why not believe them if they inculpate themselves, we also have the fact that Achaean unified Greece breaks down some of these times, and - well, the ship catalogue seems too boring for simple story telling and also a great explanation of how local loyalties then came to take the upper hand over a disappearing central authority.

49:52 Resuming the discussion,
1) the professor Mary Bachvarova concentrates on epics of a certain type (some of which unhistorical, like destruction of Akade) being present in a melting point of oral traditions, like the ones recorded for some reason by Hittites
2) she states that the walls of fallen Troy were nearly immediately objects of veneration
3) that Greeks came to venerate them too
4) that festivals of oral performances came to form epic traditions
5) and the one in Miletus helped the transition from Aeolia to Ionia.

Miletus as well as Troy certainly adored Apollo.

She refuses to identify the events of the actual war leading to the fall of Troy VIIa with the events in the Greek tradition of Trojan war, but she also refuses to disidentify them.

She notes that different versions of epics exist in relation to different audiences - and that a mixed audience, pro-Greek and pro-Trojan, is necessary to understand the focus of the Iliad.

All this is perfectly compatible with Homer assembling to a whole, focussed on Achilles and Hector, epic traditions starting with the actual war of Troy.

It can be noted, it is not easy to prove destruction of Akkad non-historic.

The location of Akkad is unknown.

Two explanations could be:
a) it was destroyed, as claimed by the epic
b) it was renamed Babilu, after Sargon had conquered an earlier Babilu in what's now Turkey (Çinar).

A compromise could be, it was destroyed, and its rebuilding was named Babilu.

52:36 So, an epic formula about "steep Wilusa" recorded in Hittite as an incipit matches an epic formula in Homer "steep Ilion" ... (Ilios ap' eine) ...

This would mean, after the war, the method of epic performance being already in place, and formulas about Ilion too, the memory could quickly crystallise into epics.

We don't have an uncontrolled oral transmission, which would end up like a telephone game, but one controlled by the confiding of it to specialists.

Susan Sherratt was in 2010 publishing THE TROJAN WAR: HISTORY OR BRICOLAGE?
in Bulletin of the Institute of Classical Studies
Vol. 53, No. 2 (2010), pp. 1-18 (18 pages)
Published By: Oxford University Press
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43655704

I think the question is posed both right and wrong.

The right part is, not involving "symbol" or "fable" as an alternative.

The wrong part is, putting history and bricolage as mutually exclusive.

In this case, it is very probable that history was highly contaminated by bricolage from epics about other historic (or sometimes non-historic) events.

I have myself argued some Anatolian (originally Hittite) nobility being absorbed into the nobility that was audience for Homer's and pre-Homeric epics, and that scenes originally in battle of Kadesh found their way into a war purporting to be just the Trojan one.

As the memory of the Hittites was actively suppressed, this is even probable. A noble commemorating an ancestor fighting at Kadesh in that case couldn't name the locality Kadesh. He had to relocate the story into a non-Hittite (at least purportedly) context.

Another formula is by Mary Bacharovna traced to between 1150 and 1050 - in other words soon after the actual destruction of Troy VIIa.
Iliou proparoithen
Iliou has to be four syllables, I-li-o-o, with first I long, and last o naturally short, but involved in a long syllable by position, before pr- in proparoithen.

53:59 "at the point where contraction between like vowels and adjacent syllables is starting to happen in Greek"

In other words, after -oio had become -o-o, but before it had become -ou.

What if the formula is even earlier, while -oio generally remained -oio, but in this case it is -o-o because of dissimilation since we have -i - just before the genitive ending?

The Mycenaean Greek ending was -oio, but for the words in Classic -iou, do we know Mycenaean Greek had *-ioio or could in theory Mycenaean Greek have had -io'o instead, to avoid repeating the yod sound?