Friendly Atheist Gets Unfriendly

The Jehovah's Witnesses are no longer a "religious community" in Norway
Friendly Atheist, 26 Jan. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKCHu5d2J_A

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2:10 "nor should any group hurting kids"

Why is the Norwegian CPS still funded by tax payers then?

More seriously, CPS have a history of deeming parents guilty of hurting their children's rights and taking the children away over peanuts - or over parents being too overtly Christian.

A mixed Romanian-Norwegian couple, the Bodnarius, had their five children taken away because the CPS considered they (who were roughly speaking Pentecostals) "were too Christian" ...

There were protests by Romanians before Norwegian embassies in more than one country, and rightly so.

II

Hans-Georg Lundahl

2:41 I think you were a bit unfair when speaking of a "giant barrel" - you dismiss public education that has similar or greater offense statistics on that count than "Catholic" clergy?

NoMoon777

Public education is not a "religion", it actually serves a purpose.

Also it would be interesting for this point to check what proportion of these cases in the public system are commited by alleged christians.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@NoMoon777 "it actually serves a purpose."

To KKK back in 1868, it was meant to serve the purpose of combatting a specific religion, namely Catholicism. Which makes it confessional.

"check what proportion ... by alleged christians."

Or rather, how much more or less the Christians are perps than on those workplaces.

NoMoon777

@Hans-Georg Lundahl About your point on the KKK: Sometimes knifes are used to kill people, is it the purpose they are made? No, does it make them bad? No, does it make so that their real purpose is no more? Also no. Just because some groups try to use does not mean it does not have a purpose in existing. SO this part of your coment is useless.

On the next part, i just wanted to call attention to the fact that not all crimes commited by the ""holy"" happens at churchs. And that the information about how many of the sexual offenders call themselves christians would be a intersting number to analise.

On the point of abuse happening in the public eduation context, i though i was clear but perharps i failed:

It is still a problem that needs to be solved. Yet there is not a option to just close it down because it serves a purpose. Churchs on the other hand as organizations do not, specially when the money used for charity is coming from the government, which is absolutely stupid. Why can't the government do the charity then? why would need to pass by more hands and end up in the pockets of so many religious leaders?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@NoMoon777 "Sometimes knifes are used to kill people, is it the purpose they are made?"

Prior to KKK, the parents in the US had a perfect right to decide for themselves to educate their offspring in schools or not to, and to chose school form within their means.

The Casati laws targetted Austria and Catholics, KKK targetted Catholics, Jules Ferry and Émile Combe targetted Catholics, Lenin targetted Christianity, Azaña expanding state-operated secular schools targetted Catholics, Hitler Bohrmann targetted any kind of Jewish even indirect influence, including Catholic one.

"Just because some groups try to use does not mean it does not have a purpose in existing."

I think you misunderstood me. KKK did not try to make every US citizen become a racist. KKK targetted the mentalities which in a racist manner they despised, including the Catholic religious education.

"And that the information about how many of the sexual offenders call themselves christians would be a intersting number to analise."

In order to analyse it correctly, one would need to take into account whether they are overrepresented or underrepresented. For instance, if in US schools 70 % are religious in the personnel, but only 60 % are so among the sex offenders, that would mean the religious are underrepresented, even if they are in the majority. I think you could make some kind of similar observation against them in countries where they are rather rare in public schools.

"L'Education nationale est secouée par plusieurs affaires de pédophilie. Un directeur d'école de Villefontaine (Isère) a été mis en examen pour viols de onze élèves, qui auraient été commis entre décembre et mars 2014."
"Cette figure de l’enseignement privé catholique a été mis en examen pour “agression sexuelle sur mineur” sur un élève de 14 ans. Il conteste les faits."
"Najat Vallaud-Belkacem : « Dans l’éducation nationale, les réponses aux abus sexuels n’ont pas toujours été à la hauteur »"
...

"Yet there is not a option to just close it down because it serves a purpose."

Compulsory education in schools serve no necessary purpose. Societies have done very well without it.

"Churchs on the other hand as organizations do not,"

The Catholic Church normally speaking serves the purpose of getting people to Heaven. Accessorily, it provides a mentality better suited for good policy making than public schools do.

NoMoon777

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Hold up, i am confused, are you defending only private schools existing cutting off all the "poors" from any chance of education and a better life?
Or are you defending home education, which is in most cases impossible, given that the vast majority of the population do not the formation/capacitation to teach any subject in a high level?

And on the KKK thing, do you think they did it on the whole world? Are you insane? I am not american and i have public education as well.
The reason education pushes people away from religion is not a conspiracy by the KKK, it is just the fact that the more scientific knowlege you have more obvious all the times the church has been wrong, which is pretty much everytime they go against science.
And then it gets really hard to take the 3k years old book written by goat farmers seriously.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@NoMoon777 "And on the KKK thing, do you think they did it on the whole world?"

I enumerated other situations where people conspiring against Catholicism are involved in pushing compulsory education.

For completeness, I could add that KKK are a specially virulent branch-off from Freemasonry, which Communism also is, with predecessors like Carbonari.

For completeness, I could add, the Enlightenment was basically European intellectual culture getting hijacked by Freemasonry.

Note, I said European. That leaves out the KKK per se and only involves their more distant relatives like Voltaire.

"I am not american and i have public education as well."

When you spell "analise" I take it you are Hispanic or Spaniard? For Spain, I already said what I think of Azaña ...

Now, you asked what I am for.

• 1) Parents should have the right to send children to apprenticeships and to keep girls at home up to marriage with only cooking and baby sitting on the curriculum, if that is what they want.
• 2) Parents should have the right to homeschool, no questions asked about the quality, since, see previous.
• 3) Parents should have the right to chose confessional schools, private ones being one obvious possibility.
• 4) If the state choses to make public education available, it should not make it compulsory, or near compulsory for most by ruling out option 1.
• 5) If the state choses to make public educaiton available, it should not order one sided promotion of either Evolution or Heliocentrism. It should make confessional choices available.

In Austria, when I was a child in late 70's, before my ma decided to homeschool me (which is perfectly legal in Catholic Austria), she had to decide what Catechism I should get. No Lutheran Catechism was available, she only had Calvinist or Catholic, and she chose Catholic.

Schools certainly existed in Spain before Azaña and in Russia before Lenin. Publically financed. Available to the poor. But two big differences - they were not compulsory (not sure Azaña changed this, but Lenin did), and they did offer Catechism (which Azaña outlawed as much as Lenin).

You mentioned private schools being available only to the rich. This is not true. There are élite schools where the rich are the priority, because they pay. There are also confessional schools, which are partly run as charities - the parents who can pay and some non-parents for the age group contribute to the school, so it can also take poor children without them paying full tuition fees.

Finally:

"it is just the fact that the more scientific knowlege you have more obvious all the times the church has been wrong,"

More like a few key concepts for world view, being pushed as "Science" and wrongly so called.

"And then it gets really hard to take the 3k years old book written by goat farmers seriously."

I think King David who wrote psalms had more sheep than goats. Moses had an education at a Pharao's court. St. Luke had a professional formation as a physician.

NoMoon777

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Incredible, i was having fun debating with morons about religion. But once again i hit the wall.
The wall being someone with such absurd vision of the world that there is no "agreed reality" and therefore no argument will do anything, no amount of logic will convince.

As always depressing, "keep girls at home up to marriage with only cooking and baby sitting on the curriculum" this says enough about you, the fact that you feel like this is not only fine but the correct.

Well, it is what it is. The only consolation that i have is that each year there is less people like you on the planet.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@NoMoon777 "that there is no "agreed reality""

Do you agree:

• that what we see with our eyes prima facie looks like Sun turning around Earth?
• that sciences are supposed to start with evidence and start from what it prima facie looks like, at least on some level?
• that the societal past is accessible to books?
• that different people depending on where they stand can interpret it differently?
• that people may come to stand on certain issues depending on how they interpret history?
• that some interpretations of history are absurd because they involve heroising cruel people?
• that I might know history better than you do, if I am a history geek at age 54 and started being one age 10-11?

"this says enough about you, the fact that you feel like this is not only fine but the correct."

In fact, I didn't say it was the universal correct, I said it was fine. How about learning to read?

If your reason for thinking it was my version of "the" correct was my putting it at position 1, I did that to get a misunderstanding out of the way, that one being that the priority is to get children into the same curriculum (which was a priority for the evil people I've mentioned, including but not exclusive to KKK).

I hope your consolation, which seems genocidal on a KKK and Margaret Sanger kind of plane, will be taken away from you quickly.

III

Hans-Georg Lundahl

8:28 I am reminded of how Swedish CPS was isolating me from my mother, 40 weeks per year, namely the school weeks ... from 9th to 12th grade.

True, only 9th grade was actually enforced. 10th grade, I wanted an international education to help me out of Sweden (IB of Geneva). ...

But Swedish CPS basically punished me and ma by such isolation for my:

• being YEC
• roughly speaking National Socialist sympathiser (having as yet heard little of other Fascisms which I definitely prefer over Hitlerism), even if I was so with reservations, and preferred the Middle Ages
• believing it was OK to get engaged to and plan to later marry someone when one was in 8th grade ... and consequently trying to talk a girl into it by being a "very young stalker" ... who didn't stalk all that much.

Secularists in Sweden and Norway, in the CPS, are treating teens and children as bad as JW's treat rebellious children ... or at least comparably bad, if not as.

IV

AMG Guy

Russia outlawed Evangelicals... once Putin saw how Murderous, Worthless, Racist, Hateful, Adulterous and Treasonous Evangelicals are in America. . . Putin said: OH HELL NO. EVANGELICALS ARE ILLEGAL IN RUSSIA. Sadly that mean most must remain in America.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You agree with Putin's assessment of the Ukraine too?