Ages or Names Symbolic?

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Ussher III · Φιλολoγικά / Philologica: Numeric Symbolism in Genesis 5 Patriarchs? · HGL'S F.B. WRITINGS: Number Symbolism in Genesis 5? · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Ages or Names Symbolic?

My Question

Are Orthodox Jews saying Patriarcal Ages in Genesis 5 and 11 have number symbolism?
https://www.quora.com/Are-Orthodox-Jews-saying-Patriarcal-Ages-in-Genesis-5-and-11-have-number-symbolism

Answer I

Al Berko

Completely Jewish

Aug 27

Technically, they have to. For many different reasons:

1. Truthfulness: Today’s criteria for the truthfulness of claims are very different from the ancient world - we know sciences and we don’t like to be BS-ed. While the Rabbinic tradition is pretty much literalistic, once they confront reasoning and common sense they resort to Biblical metaphorism.
2. Gnostic tradition: If you read the Torah back to back unbiasedly, you will very quickly realize how dull, primitive, philosophically and theologically shallow it is, especially after the Exodus story. Rabbis already realized that in the 2nd century BCE, so they adopted the Gnostic approach of presenting the Torah as codes and metaphors of “deep divine secrets”. Philo was probably the first written source of such an approach to the scripture.
3. Greek numerology: Rabbis loved cracking numbers and numerology (aka Heb. Gematria=”Gamma means three”) and applied it extensively for interpreting the text. Unfortunately, Rabbinic mathematics didn’t develop beyond basic arithmetic.

Practically, most Orthodox skip this part altogether as meaningless. Pre-Abrahamic stories have no Halachic (law-pertaining) value, so they don’t bother the followers of Rabbinic Judaism too much.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Aug 28 2023

Oh, thank you.

That was very enlightening.

“Pre-Abrahamic stories have no Halachic (law-pertaining) value, so they don’t bother the followers of Rabbinic Judaism too much.”

A solution which is not open to Catholics, obviously (II Tim 3:16 and Trent Session IV).

I take it you don’t know of any specific number symbolisms commonly or even less commonly used?

One more … Genesis 14, being Abrahamic, and having Halachic value is strictly taken as historical, right?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Aug 28 2023

“Philo was probably the first written source of such an approach to the scripture.”

Does he give any specific symbolism for the patriarcal ages in Genesis 5 or 11?

Answer II

Yehoshua Feigon

Translator and Language Coach; Kosher Food Manager

Wed 30.VIII.2023

The ages may or may not, but some of the names do. Isaac in Hebrew (יצחק) has an exact numerical value of 208, 8 times the value of the Divine name (26). His son Jacob’s name (יעקב) has a numerical value of precisely 182, 7 times the value of the Divine name. His son Joseph’s name (יוסף) has a numerical value of 156, exactly 6 times the value of the Divine name.

With regard to the ages themselves: we are told that Abraham passed away early, to spare him seeing the apostasy of his grandson Esau, and we are told that Jacob’s lifespan was reduced by one year for every word of complaint that he made to Pharaoh. I don’t know if this is helpful.

While he didn't allow me to comment, it was in fact very helpful. No, there is no Jewish tradition that we Christian Fundamentalists miss out on, about patriarcal ages having a purely symbolic value.