Exchange on Pope Michael I

I Didn't Know I was Signing Up For This
Brian Holdsworth, 13 janv. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlIy31OWyV0

Hans Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

This was not what I signed up for in 1988:

283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."

It has been promoted since 1992 by three men whom you consider Popes.

There is a solution without jumping ship. The captain of St. Peter's Boat is a Philippine, not an Argentine.

KA Fleury

@kimfleury

Are you sure it's not Pope Micheal? I'm not sure if he's still alive, but he unironically accepted the office of the papacy and ruled from somewhere in the US. I don't know who his followers were, maybe his mother alone, but he does seem to have a following of fellow Catholics who protest against the Vatican II documents. Others went for the SSPX parishes, which are not sedevacantist. Not even SSPX goes around looking for a new Pope to replace the one in Rome. It's not like the first centuries when it was the Christian community in Rome that chose their own bishop, which also happens to be the head bishop of all the Churches led by the other successors to the Apostles.

Hans Georg Lundahl

OK, I adhered precisely to Michael I @kimfleury, whom you describe.

He died on August 2 of 2022, his successor is a Philippine, Michael II.

El Harto

@El-Harto

Conclavism is jumping ship. If I get a couple of my buddies to declare me a Pope, that doesn't actually make me Pope.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@El-Harto Two problems.
1) There already is a Pope. Your case would be different by that alone. David Bawden made sure there was no previous Pope. Including those in the Vatican and those in Palmar, that they weren't Popes.
2) Officially, David Bawden invited lots, only six came, the theological stars among these were himself and a woman, so, women being ineligible, he was elected.

IF you believe he set it up so only six came, prove it!

The election of his successor was even more different from what you describe.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@El-Harto Let's turn that round.

If I fool the college of Cardinals, I'm a Catholic, and I'm really a heretic, and they elect me, that doesn't make me pope, or a certain guy who believes CCC § 283.

El Harto

@hglundahl Okay, you said that he "made sure" there wasn't a Pope by "making sure." By that circular logic, I just "made sure" that David Bawden also wasn't a Pope. Consequently I have asked my wife to declare me Pope Pius XIII. Please forward your tithes to my PO box.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@El-Harto You have a problem.

Your criterium for making sure he was not a Pope is rejection of conclavism. That is incompatible with accepting conclavism when it suits you.

He excluded nominations from God by a canonic definition of Pope involving "elected" and this takes care of John Gregory XVII and of Palmar de Troya (also a Gregory XVII).

He excluded Karol Wojtyla based on Cum Ex Apostolatus and on the basic theology of Cum Ex Apostolatus, as expressed by St. Robert Bellarmine.

You excluded him based only on a misunderstanding or possibly conspiracy theory on what he did.

El Harto

@hglundahl No, I excluded him based on a rudimentary understanding of what is and isn't Catholic, which naturally includes how the laity have no power to level charges of heresy with any degree of meaning. I also excluded him based on the reprehensible joke that is feigning a claim to the papacy and the "conclave " being his freaking parents in the back of a thrift store.

Again, if some random doofus in America's armpit can ask his mom to start calling him the Pope and this, miraculously, gives him legitimacy, then literally anyone can claim to be Pope with the same criteria. I say again with much authority as "Pope" Michael: I am the Pope, and I'll be looking forward to your tithes.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@El-Harto "which naturally includes how the laity have no power to level charges of heresy with any degree of meaning"

No power to make coercive judgements, but power to make discernment.

Without that, there is no point in being Catholic either.

AND as you are a layman, you just cut off the branch you sat on.

"if some random doofus in America's armpit can ask his mom to start calling him the Pope"

This is not what happened.

El Harto

@hglundahl I read the story and that's exactly what happened. A random guy had himself declared Pope by his parents and a couple friends, and some people - such as yourself, apparently - inexplicably believed him.

Hans Georg Lundahl

No, @El-Harto, you misread the story.

He took measures to get someone else elected, or you get a testimony from his former adherent Theresa S. Benns that he didn't send out hundreds of invitations.