Gen Z Catholic's Video, a Dialogue

Gen Z Catholic made a four part video against Sedevacantism : his overview of the history omits Pope Michael I · Do I Believe the Papacy At All? Yes. · Gen Z Catholic's Video, a Dialogue · Gen Z Catholic vs Me, Argument on Valid or not Papacies, Part I, What Would St. Robert Really Say? · Can the Proposed Defense For "united himself to each man" stand? No · Bishop Barron Against Rad Trads · Gen Z Catholic vs Me, Argument on Valid or not Papacies, Part II, Misreading Documents, Are We? · Gen Z Catholic vs Me, Argument on Valid or not Council · Gen Z Catholic vs Me, Argument on Valid or not Orders

Same video as in historic overview.

Wes

@wes4736

As a former Sedevacantist, i thank you for this!! God bless

Wes

I'm listening to this for work, since I'm on break now I'd like to give a very short testimony.

I was raised Mormon, I believed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the one true Church. My mom and I left when I was a teenager in 2015 and I was infuriated by Mormonism's lie. I wanted to find the Church Mormonism claimed to be, and my mother became a Protestant and she thinks that the idea of one true Church is too Mormon for her to ever believe that again.

I was learning more about Catholicism when I found Vatican Catholics refutation of Martin Luther, and I went down the rabbit hole for more than two years. I found a Ukrainian Catholic Church near me, as well as a dioscan TLM parish. It was my integration into the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church that convinced me Sedevacantism can't be true, though this was just as the Pachamama scandal came out, and shook my faith but it held. I also found out through a confusion in my own genealogy that I wasn't ethnically Ukrainian, only related by a marriage.

But I didn't mind, they took me in as one of their own, and I was formally baptised into the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in December of 2020 after three years of attendence and gradual catechesis. I had to move away, and currently attend a traditional, but still Novus Ordo parish that has been gracious to take me in while I'm in college and live far away from my hometown.

God bless all who've read, and all who haven't. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else outside myself give this argument, but I think Eli is a good refutation of Sedevacantism. He and his sons were corrupt and sinned against God, but he still held the office of High Priest and he did not invalidate the old covenant. Even though I'm often scandalised by Francis, and he often gives confusing statements, his confusions does not invalidate the new covenant, nor the Papacy.

Vincent Vu

@VincentVu846

@wes4736 This story is definitely relevant where i am, im surrounded by mormons 😅😅

Wes

@VincentVu846 - the religion is absolutely cooky, but the Mormons themselves are some of the kindest people out there. Pray tell, where are you from? I'm from a place in the US Mormonism was Still very much a minority.

Vincent Vu

@wes4736 absolutely true, kindest people I've ever met though unfortunately still in theological error. I'm from Idaho where Mormonism maintains a strong influence in government in my area.

Vigil

@friskoi

@wes4736 My friend, the scandals of Francis do not invalidate the new covenant, nor the Papacy, because he is not even in the church.
His public heresies cause him and his ascendants to be outside of the church, they cannot harm the divine authority or law of the church if they are outside of it.

You can try and try but you cannot refute something that is undeniably true.

SelfLoathingWeekly

@selfloathingweekly

@wes4736 do not worship the papacy or the pope. Worship the holy father and the lord.

Put Christ before the heresy of the Pope.

Embrace Traditional Catholicism. Reject the papacy as they reject our heritage.

Wes

@friskoi - Tell me, Sedevacantist. Where is your apostolic succession? Where are your bishops? All you have done is give supporting arguments for Orthodoxy, you've not stated a public heresy, you've not even cited scandals the way I have.

The fact of the matter is that a single man's conclusion as to who is and isn't in the Church is utterly and entirely arbitrary, unless the man one refers to is themselves. You've made yourself a schismatic, as though you were a Jew who would forsake God's Temple upon a Hellenistic Priesthood arriving.

My friend, return to the Church to fight for it. If there's anyone who knows what a corrupt hierarchy looks like, it's me. It's not the first time I've lived through it, but the difference is that Catholicism doesn't crumble before the corruptions revelation.

Jean Durtal

@jeandurtal8404

@wes4736 He talks about the bishops in his "documentary." Apparently you didn't watch it. Also it isn't "a single man's conclusions" it's the clear teaching of the Magisterium of the Church before the ostensible hierarchy did a full 180 around the time of Vatican II.

SelfLoathingWeekly

@KoranKisser i mean you're preaching to the choir.

[Was someone's comment pushed out?]

Hans Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

Wes, did you ever consider Pope Michael?

Wes

@hglundahl - I read his case and he's an absolute nut job, I could tell that out even as a Sedevacantist. His followers are basically just his extended family.

Hans Georg Lundahl

By now, @wes4736 , this is not the case.

2011, two bishops consecreated him. 12 years ago, he was able to say Mass for Christmas.

This year, his successor was elected in Vienna and resides in the Philippines.

I think you relied too heavily on how the ones wanting to remain sedes rather than have a pope, using sedeprivationism, described him to you.

I have asked a journalist who saw him, if she thought he had a mental diagnosis, and no, she hadn't thought so.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@selfloathingweekly "Reject the papacy as they reject our heritage"

Our heritage says one cannot.

It's not the papacy one has to reject, but their papacy.

Have you considered Pope Michael?

Draftsman

@draftsman3383

What is a sedevacantist? And why does it hurt?

SelfLoathingWeekly

@hglundahl have you read about Saint Pius?

Hans Georg Lundahl

You mean FSSPX, @selfloathingweekly ?

The late Pope Michael called their attitude R'n'R. Both he and I have some familiarity with it.

SelfLoathingWeekly

@hglundahl society of saint pius x

Hans Georg Lundahl

As I thought, @selfloathingweekly .

Yes, I and the late Pope Michael were both formerly SSPX-faithful.

He characterised their position as R'n'R (Recognise an' Resist).

That one can momentarily resist a Pope, without ceasing as yet to recognise him, hoping he'll change his mind is not doubtful, the salient point is, can one go on doing it decade after decade?

Their views on not obeying all orders of drunkard fathers (when physical such) both bypasses that drunkard fathers aren't spiritual fathers, and also introduces lots of fuge factors about the neighbours free will and responsibility. That is one of their favourite comparisons about how they relate to :

• Paul VI
• John Paul II
• Benedict XVI
• Francis

citing the papal names as they consider them Popes.

syril

@Syrillios

@wes4736 I don't understand, so how did you come to the conclusion that sedevacantism must be false by attending a Eastern Catholic Church?

Dorcas Walker

@dorcaswalker1867

So no you have apostatized and in mortal sin

Hans Georg Lundahl

I have a hunch, @Syrillios .

I looked up the catechism, Jesus — Our Pascha. It does not have errors like CCC § 283. Also, their liturgies have either not been changed or less changed.

Wes

@wes4736

@hglundahl - And that's the catechism I used for my catechesis, I still have my copy on my bookshelf actually. It makes extensive reference TO the second Vatican Council without any of the ritual capitulations that came about later in the West. Since I wrote my first comments, I'm very happy to say that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has outright REFUSED the papal letter regarding blessing homosexual "couples".

For the East, any ritual changes were moreso about delatinization, and refocusing on the Eastern part of Eastern Catholicism. For example, I only do Eucharistic adoration in Latin rite churches, it's not a thing at my former home parish, same with displaying the 12 icons for the passion. The Cathedral in Philadelphia retains their beautiful adoration stands, as well as a plethora of other stunning art, old vestments, and artifacts of the Metropolitan downstairs in a museum.

All this to say, my Sedevacantism wavered firstly on the ground that it's very clear Vatican II by no means necessitates what's happening in the Latin Rite right now. And now, I've come to a wider understanding in that the changing of ritual is insignificant in its importance compared to the reasoning and implications any changes create.

Ben Polacek

@TheBrunohusker

Man I don’t know if I’ve ever ran into former sedevacantists

Wes

@TheBrunohusker - you very well might not have. I've read estimates about there being probably between 250 and 300,000 worldwide. Granted, I bet you most of them are Americans or French.

Ben Polacek

@wes4736 I do know where there churches are though. In Nebraska there are 3 sede churches and iirc one bishop of a group is bases in Omaha.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

Thanks, @wes4736 !

I appreciate the stats.

Hans Georg Lundahl

And many thanks, Wes, for the excellent news about Eastern Rite Catholics.

I might be somewhat interesting with the news that Pope Michael I was actually ordained and consecrated by a bishop of the Byzantine rite.

Hans Georg Lundahl

Happy New Year and blessed Feast of S. Basil, both of you!

Abdullahexmuslim

@Abdullahexmuslim

A YouTuber by the name of RZApologist recently made a video responding to gen z catholic documentary it seems as if he’s came out with his own it’s pretty interesting I would check it out

Hans Georg Lundahl

Thank you, @Abdullahexmuslim !

Happy New Year, @Abdullahexmuslim !

I found the video

Sedevacantism Refuted - (Full Documentary 2023) (REBUTTED) PART 1
RZApologist | 2 Jan. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlDyt7zeDe8