No Deception, Your Apologies, Just a Thing You Hadn't Learned to Read : an Implication

My Apologies Leaves Out Parts of the Argument He Pretends to Refute · Dialogue under My Apologies' Video : was already 382 infallible? · "My Apologies" Claims to Defend Infallible Scripture As Somehow Accessible Without Infallible Church · No Deception, Your Apologies, Just a Thing You Hadn't Learned to Read : an Implication

Church History DECEPTION!
My Apologies | 24 Jan. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBrBoyBCWVQ

4:07 Definitely compares Eves disobedience to Mary's obedience.

Now, obedience to God is a quality predicated of Her Son whom we already know to be sinless.

4:15 "makes no comment at all on her sin or lack thereof"

Kind of does when you remember what sin means in Christian theology.

4:33 "what the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief"

By persuading her husband Adam

"the Virgin Mary loosed by faith"

By persuading the new Adam, Whom She was educating.

This is not just a case of one act of obedience, though a great one, it's a question of Who was teaching Jesus when He was very small.

Eve could not have corrupted Adam if she had not herself sinned.

Mary could not have kept the new Adam upright, if She had not been sinless.

Note, St. Ireneaeus doesn't just call her "occasion" for salvation (the word certainly exists in Latin), he called Her "cause" of it.

Bill Pletikapich

@billpletikapich5640

Outstanding pull ! For me, this also obviates the meaning of original sin.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

@billpletikapich5640 What does? In what way? Sorry if I'm obtuse.

Bill Pletikapich

@hglundahl I seemed to read your typology points at the right time - They got me noodling on original sin and the role of Mary throughout Jesus life. Original Sin - On the surface it's an inherited sin, a stain, a blemish. What I had never really pondered was the privation and loss. We had original grace ordered to God inherent in our nature. Then, this gift and its privileges were forfeited by original sin. Our original integral nature is now a loss or privation where we retain our memory and the wounds of our loss. When God's angel declared Mary "full of grace", it obviates that sinful man came from original sin of Eve and sinless Jesus came from sinless Mary . Body of Christ, from Mary's body. Blood of Christ from Mary's blood. Where Abraham, the Father of Faith, required covenants with God to stop sinning and come to obedience, Mary birthed the new and everlasting covenant without consternation "Let it be to me according to your will". Without a rich biblical understanding of Mary's role in salvation history, its easy to overlook the church fathers -"obedience", "without stain or blemish", "pain free birth", "cause of salvation", etc.

@hglundahl The concept that Mary had to mother "raise" Jesus got me thinking: Mary birthed Jesus, she interceded at His first miracle, She was at His death on the cross when Jesus declared her as our Mother, She was in the upper room as Queen Mother of The Church and she now sits "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars". This all appears to be above the pay grade of a sinful human mother.

Hans Georg Lundahl

@billpletikapich5640 Key word: sinful.

Sinless = also victorious against the old serpent.

Where does it say?

"blessed among women" ...

Like Jael was victorious against Sisera and Judith against Holophernes.

5:40 This is a bit more direct than St. Irenaeus:

Ὑπὸ τὴν σὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν,
καταφεύγομεν, Θεοτόκε.
Τὰς ἡμῶν ἱκεσίας,
μὴ παρίδῃς ἐν περιστάσει,
ἀλλ᾽ ἐκ κινδύνων λύτρωσαι ἡμᾶς,
μόνη Ἁγνή, μόνη εὐλογημένη.

From a Coptic service from 250 AD.

How do you read "alone pure, alone blessed" (in the feminine, not obviously excluding her son was pure and blessed in the masculine)?

To me this seems a pretty blatant show of belief She was sinless. And specifically, the "mone" seems to indicate her justice and sinlessness goes beyond what other women can have by being redeemed after having already fallen. Therefore, unfallen.

6:10 Yeah, that's where I quoted Tertullian from.

But ... "quotes that don't actually support the doctrine in question" ... does that mean "that do not state it in identical words"?

"The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit.
The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son.
Yet they are one God, not three Gods."

Find a verbatim quote in the Bible?

6:27 It's more like you haven't learned to read.

You have not learned to read a statement and capture the statements that logically go with it, that is.

I suppose when it comes to reading nursery rhymes and car travel maps, you do just fine.

The fact that they need to compare Mary to Eve is in itself a good argument for Her sinlessness, especially when Eve's disobedience (the first human sin if not the decisive one) is compared to Her obedience, over and over again.