... on Wiki (For Morons or Not Only?) (Featuring JPHolding)

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Theologyweb : TektonTV Thread
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?245-TektonTV-Thread/

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09-30-2014, 09:40 AM #270

ukchristian28

Hi J.P. Something for you to possibly get your teeth into. Someone posted this in the Unbelievable Facebook group. Apparently, someone has now done some thorough research and has concluded that Jesus never existed:

http://www.inquisitr.com/1504964/jesus-never-existed/

09-30-2014, 03:38 PM #271

jpholding

Nah, that's just the same old "Remsberg's List" argument I've already debunked. Maybe with some names added of people whose works are lost to us. I'll have a somewhat updated response to those ideas in the next e-book.

Yesterday, 04:17 PM #681*

hansgeorg

As I didn't have access to original Remsberg list, I refuted the updated version. With lots of wiki quotes they will hardly deny.

Today, 04:11 PM #682

Today, 04:13 PM #683

jpholding

Wiki quotes is for morons. Find the original source or shut your yap.

Wacko, get the hell out of this thread. I don't want you here wasting my time and that of others here with your insane fluff.

As originator of the thread, I am free and have the authority to order you out, and I hereby do so.**

Aftermath

I had been going to compliment JPHolding on his style of videos being influential, with these two examples:

Catholic Inquisition Myths Busted
vaticancatholic.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_xohxaLEo

"Pseudo-Traditionalism Is Free Falling"
TradCatKnight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_17gk1vMrOw

One has a title reminiscent of "Myth Buster", another uses toon material (Wile E. Coyote, gravity lessons on the still) to bring home the point of "free fall" in its title.

However, since all of page 68 were my responses* and I stopped after first on page 69 (I was born 68, not 69!**), I'll spare him my deplored company.

I wonder if he meant what I wrote "wiki quotes" - that is quotes from wikipedian articles - or what is better known as "wikiquotes". Either way, his criterium is calculated, whether he knows so or not, to make writing on internet a hobby only for those having more time and leisure and definitelymore money than I do.

Obviously, I disagree. Most of the time, copying a work was a rather long chore and therefore much of the things we know are known via authors whose works function a bit like wiki articles, with earlier authors contributing, but these lost, and themselves then final (sometimes vandalising) redactors of a wiki. Except, this freedom (and its abuse) existed between works, not in copying of each.

Notes

* ##671-680 were also mine.

** I amenned the second post, the one not derogatory of wiki, but remininding of his freedoms.

Appendix

where I adressed versions of Remsberg list:

somewhere else : 1st C Historians, Wikipedia Category
http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.com/2011/04/1st-c-historians-wikipedia-category.html

And at least one or two more in same series (links within).

somewhere else : Silent Historians Argument Revisited :

1) Ten Extra-Biblical Writers or Sources on Reign of Tiberius
http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.com/2016/04/ten-extra-biblical-writers-or-sources.html

2) Two of These Quoted
http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.com/2016/04/two-of-these-quoted-silent-historians.html

... against Federal Ban on Fireplaces

Without watching first.

Will watch later:

Video to watch

Why Feds Are Banning Fireplaces And Wood Stoves
The Alex Jones Channel
Ajoutée le / added on the 19 nov. 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m25OsRVc7e0

This means my own comment is not the best of the combox pick, as yet, but not totally bad either, I hope:

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Are FEDS banning them?

Nancy M

A woodburning stove saved my parents lives a couple years ago in Oregon... they had a blizzard and couldn't get out of their 40 acre home and the power was off for almost a week... fortunately my dad was well stocked on wood and kept the place warm... The are in their 80's...

Ohsaint p

That's why we voted Trump. To end all these rats from doing whatever they want.

Teresa Smith

Will you please make sure Trump is aware of this stupidity? I live in a area where the power goes out alot due to weather, snow making limbs fall. We have to have a alternative source of heat.

Kathy Florcruz

YOU make sure Trump knows. He works for us. Alex is doing his job of making you aware.

wolf shedler

We burn wood summer and winter We have gotten rid of all our propane appliances and its like a burden has been lifted. We have a 100 acres mostly wooded and our fuel grown on trees. We make our own electricity and grow our own food. We brew our own beer and still use on outside rootcellar. A bad batch of beer is distilled at home using a woodstove. We use a woodstove in our gazebo for cooking in the summertime or a solar powered hotplate. Life is good and i would never trade my freedom for all those city comforts that come at a huge price. Thanks Alex we watch you on our solar powered laptop

BlueRoseRocketBand

I said it before and all through this election this is a clash between rural and urban. I have said cities are prisons without bars. So I chose long ago to live outside the Maze . I now live semi-off grid. My total utilities a month are $20 at my place outside of a small country town. My place has a few acres and old growth forest. All the firewood I need Ginseng, sassarfras, blackberry,plums, produce, game and eggs too. My best old friend, Max, my German shepherd. Built my own bucksaw from pine. Get firewood with an old crosscut saw and axe. Brew my own dark beer and blackberry wine or whatever .Built my own cistrens and solar panels. I read alot,write, play guitar and listen to radio and cassettes. Most would say I'm below the poverty level. Hell I lived on about $155 a month for a few years till I got my SS. I was strong as an ox. Now its about $500. Still poverty level I suppose. And yet I'm doing fine. Wish my family stayed with me but you know the name of that tune. Anyhow, when I make bistcuts in, and brew coffee on my woodstove while sitting next to the open fire I feel like I'm the wealthiest man on earth . Oh, not of coin, but of living simply free of all the clutter that fogs mans quest to find the salt at his core, and once found, to take that sweet deep breath of Freedom. Tread thee Not!

Zero Quanta

Alex is RIGHT ON with this one. I have been noticing that the Regulations for Fire places have gotten RIDICULOUS. They do NOT want you to have a wood stove. Fist up, Fight for Truth.

Tens of DU

FACT: One year of volcanic activity on Earth produces more CO2 than all of human history combined.

Trolling4muniez

source ? like thats a megapunch argument if i can get source

Katerina B

Here in Switzerland some people heat their giant homes by burning wood :/

Obvious Lee

They respect a man's privacy there. Particularly if he has a fortune.

riphaven

Yes, but you didn't have a black liberal socialist president, so be happy and eat your chocolate. :)

The fact is, the craze about carbon dioxide started to corrupt environmentalism from a book by Ichtiaque Rasool.

And possibly from back up studies, but more probably from sloppy readers, who didn't note that he never proved or claimed to prove that Carbon Dioxide is a real climate bandit.

Here is my older study of that book, read on a homeless shelter with too much come and go during the night for me to sleep:

deretour : Ichtiaque Rasool, Système Terre - "pas terrible ..."
http://hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/ichtiaque-rasool-systeme-terre-pas.html

... or rather remarks on vaticancatholic's video on KJV-Onlyism

Video commented on:

Is the King James Bible Infallible?
vaticancatholic.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUTlvAsLyPM

0:42

Just for the record, my online English Bible is DRB. And if I get hold of Father Ronald Knox, I'll take a look at that too, it has pre-Vatican II imprimatur, I think.

But SOME guys associate me with KJ-onlyists because I am generally a Biblical inerrantist - especially YEC and Geocentric.

My Biblical chronology is also LXX via St Jerome and Roman Martyrology for 25 of December. Christ born 5199 anno Mundi.

4:53

As a revert from Orthodox to Catholic, I note that some Catholic arguments for Papacy have similar problems.

• a) Peter's office must have remained THEREFORE it is the Roman Pontiff who uniquely holds it;
• b) Peter episcopated effectively in Jerusalem, Antioch and Rome, THEREFORE it is the Roman Pontiff who is unique successor of St Peter.

Note, for Jerusalem, St James the Brother of God counts as first bishop bearing that title, but before he was such, Peter and the Apostles were ruling which means (if St Peter was superior to them) that St Peter was in fact episcopating from Pentecost Day or even before up to when he left Jerusalem for Antioch.

For point one, or a), I have reverted as judging by the fruits, unable to dissolve the conundrum on my own, just theologically, for the second point or b) above, well, he died in Rome, so Rome was the final of the three places where he episcopated.

KJV-onlyists would similarily argue that of the three English authorised versions, The Great Bible and The Bishops' Bible were superseded with finality by King James' Bible.

They even would have had an argument, if English had historically been a very large language early on - as it is, it was small up to American colonies, and still very small up to 18th Century, when it was heading the apostasy in certain ways. And now with internet, we have no trouble getting DRB.

6:52

KJV-Onlyists would hardly argue that King James was inspired.

They would argue that he was providential, as providential an instrument as Orthodox argue for Emperor Constantine (here a Baptist would be really illogical for another reason : this "Protestant Constantine" was in fact burning Baptists on the stake according to the Parliamentary law De comburendis hereticis, 1401, originally directed at Lollards, misapplied via the bishop of Beauvais to St Joan of Arc).

8:24

ASCII Code for King James:

KINGJAMES
777776768
538145793

777777 = 42*10
668 = 20*10

5 3 08 01 04 05 07 09 03
5 8 16 17 21 26 33 42 45

620+45 = 665.

HOLYBIBLE (but not Heilige Bibel, heliga Bibeln, Sagrada Scriptura etc) has 666.

Obviously some are making Bible reading a substitute for the Eucharist and are therefore making, precisely among English speaking Bible readers, the Bible a kind of idol.

That much you are right in.

15:12

[Where they spoke of non-copyrighted KJV as contradicted by longstanding Royal Privilege for certain printers in England:]

And in Sweden the printing press for the first Lutheran tracts was stolen by royal confiscation from the Carthusians. They had printed a tract about the Holy Rosary first.

Obviously, Reformation monarchs were not into the free press.

23:46

One Orthodox argument which once appealed to me was "Papism was the first Protestantism" - I don't believe that any longer, but it takes some detailed knowledge of Russian and other heresies to know Orthodox countries were not immune to heresies.

Protestants have at least not been skoptsy.

29:55

Speaking of King James : he was very inconsistent about the Blessed Sacrament.

On the one hand, he forbade teaching transsubstantiation. On the other hand, he forbade not kneeling while receiving.

Could one consider his attitude as responding to the description some Protestants give of Catholicism?

31:40 or before.

A printer can as easily make a mistake as someone copying by hand. See the divergences between first two editions of 1611 - or the near-Bible work we are discussing. These versions were printed.

I'd say the original reading of each autograph is preserved, meaning or even word for word in at least ONE version extant today, not necessarily the same one. I place, for instance, LXX over Vulgate in age of Adam at birth of Seth, since that seems warranted by Roman Martyrology.

36:49

God promised to preserve His words - since these include the words He inspired hagiographers to write, the original meaning of each passage must have a correctly rendered version at least somewhere.

I wonder if there aren't canonists who are trying to explain with some sweat that Trent didn't define all the correct readings to be preserved in the Vulgate.

Final remark:

To return to the locus Apocalypse 16:5, it would seem the text of Beza would have been plausible if St John had been a Greek, having past, present and future as distinct tenses, while he was in fact a Hebrew, having past and non-past as distinct tenses and rendering non-past more generally as present than as future.