Tuesday, January 12, 2016

... or mostly support of tektontv's Defense of Christmas series

Christmas is Pagan and Other Myths, Part 1: The Fundy Who Stole December 25th

2:17 "unless you were a particularly wealthy [or important] person, people had no way to track time that closely" ...

Er, not the case.

Tracking dates is not all that difficult.

If that hadn't been so, how could ordinary Hebrews know what date to celebrate Sukkoth, Seder of Passover, and so on?

Each Hebrew month began by a New Moon. Btw, as with Muslims today there can be quarrels on what evening a month began (up to Hillel II who invented precalculated calendars: Hillel II (Hebrew: הלל נשיאה, Hillel the Nasi), also known simply as Hillel held the office of Nasi of the ancient Jewish Sanhedrin between 320 and 385 CE. Thanks wiki) I think date of Seder when Christ celebrated with Last Supper may have been disputed between Him and non-Christian Jews like Kaiaphas, what evening two weeks earlier the New Moon of Nisan was sighted. So, unless there was a dispute over what evening a New Moon was (won't happen every year same place, rather places tend to differ over where a New Moon is seen same or next evening), it is just a matter of counting days from New Moon. Even ordinary people had that leasure.

Also, Birthdays were looked down on by Hebrews. Instead of celebrating a 30:th birthday party, one celebrated any major party after that - and Jesus was invited to a wedding in Cana. Satan and Angels offered Him kind of birthday presents that birthday, I'd think, and He was probably alerted to Satan's malice because He knew it was His birthday. But when angels offered Him refreshments, He knew He could accept, He had already won that round against Satan. I think those angels celebrating His birthday were what gave Christians the right to do so too.

And in Egypt the Egyptians (who celebrated birthdays) were of course asking. One very early Christmas hymn, to the Blessed Virgin Mary, is from Egyptian Christians.

2:27 You are referring to peasants, but Joseph and Mary were burghers, of the House of David and inmarried (Mary descending) also from Levites.

Also, a peasant in Protestant pre-modern Ozark is what you gave a good description of, but in Middle Ages, one rather remembered date of Baptism - generally eight days later. And it was remembered like "second Sunday after Michelmass" (after 29th of September) and so on. That is, it was remembered after calendaric principles of feastdays.

2:36 Leasure and means to TRACK birthdays were not rare. Means of making lavish feasts on them a bit more so (unless wine, bread, olives and perhaps a bit fish or meat and dates counts as lavish). But thing is, birthday celebration in time of OldTestament was usually a Pagan practise related to Astrology, celebrating your horoscope.

3:58 I am for my part saying it is true he was born that time of the year.

I think for one thing, the courses of priests (Gospel + Josephus) in temple and counting 15 months from conception of St John the Baptist (Gospel again) will bring you to something like that, and if January 6 principally is date for wedding in Cana, this would have happened some time after His thirtieth Birthday, some days between desert and Cana, calling the disciples who were with Him in Cana. Which also means His thirtieth Birthday was around that time of the year.

Now, if Roman and Hebrew calendars don't overlap equally from year to year, and January 6 is correct for wedding of Cana, tracking this back to december 25 forthrity years earlier would be risky - except for that argument about Zacharias in the Temple.

4:12 Armenians celebrate on January 6 : Birth, Adoration of Magi, Baptism AND Wedding at Cana.

Orthodox celebrate in whichever calendar they use December 25 : and if the Calendar is Julian one, that falls, between 1900 and 2100, on January 7 Gregorian. Between 1800 and 1900 (when as yet no Orthodox used Gregorian) it fell on January 6 Gregorian - coinciding with custom of Armenians, whence the mistake.

Chr[i]stmas is Pagan and Other Myths, Part 2: Why December 25th?

Christmas is Pagan and Other Myths, Part 3: Stuffing the Tree Up

Christmas is Pagan and Other Myths, Part 4: Christmas Tree Potpourri

Not as comments under videos, but as messages to youtube channel:

Since comments are off on part 3 (stuffing up the Christmas tree), and I am halfway through, I am not sure if you have heard the latest:

Writing the Renaissance : 16th Century Christmas Trees

Now I'll go back and listen - Merry Christmastide, what's left of it!

And on 4, comments are off as well, actually, there is an even closer parallel than the stones at Jordan.

Purim and Chanukkah - neither of them prescribed in the law of Moses directly per se - only indirectly in a way which CLEARLY points to Christian Holidays being legitimate.

Forgotten the passage, but it was sth about adding to feasts in order to commemorate the great deeds of God.

5:09 same video.

Jews in Jesus' time obviously at least some of them already believed in purgatory and in praying for the departed (at least the faithful departed).

Trey Smith made a video on Henoch, in which a passage sounded like a good reference both to Stabunt Iusti (Wisdom 5:1-5, I think) about those who get to bosom of Abraham directly and to a passage in the Epistles of St Paul about what happens if you build stubble on the right foundation - a passage Catholics interpret as referring to Purgatory, because it does involve the right foundation. Some refer it to Hell and "saved but as by fire" to refuting annihilationism. The passage in the books of Henoch, as I recall, a week or more ago, clearly does give hope for those who need to repent. Whether Henoch is genuine or 3:rd or 2:nd C BC apocryph, it does reflect what Jews clearly believed then.

So, how come Luther understood Purgatory belief was an abhomination so much better than Our Lord when He had time to deal with it?

No comments: