Wednesday, October 23, 2019

Quoran Medley

Are people reading too much novels with too little culture?

Some answers to Q I suggest that some think teen marriage is automatically forced marriage, because that is a current theme in novels from 19th C. on, and QQ II and III suggest some have taken novel fictional things like constructed languages and fictional bloodlines "from Jesus" as actually factual.

Umberto Eco never had to search for a manuscript by Adso from Melk, if kings had the privilege in France to marry nobility orphans, they usually (despite action of Quentin Durward) did so with regards for feelings of the orphan, not forcing her, Dan Brown never unearthed any secret society called Priory of Sion or found a secret posterity to Our Lord and St. Mary Magdalene, and Tolkien never had to decipher Sindarin, since he constructed it, as much as there is of it, with its grammar, sounds, diverse spellings in tengwar, and its ambiguity between "speak" and "say". Novels are novels. They are made up.

And Disney describing Middle Ages as either very dirty or very prone to see witches in every scientifically enlightened person does not make the Middle Ages so.

How old was Mary (mother of Jesus) when she gave birth to Jesus?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University
Answered just now
St. Joseph (stepfather of Jesus) was at least 18 (or he would not have been asked to get to census) and according to Proto-Gospel of St. James an older widower.

The Blessed Virgin was arguably a teen, especially according to Proto-Gospel which says she was fianceed to St. Joseph by the high priest after her first menstruation.

There are some people who have found fault with this, shame on them.

Citing Robert Gibbs: "Ask any father: … Would you want your daughter to get married when she is only 13, or 14, years old. Would you believe she was ready to have a child start taking care of a husband and a family at that age?"

Obviously yes, since God has made her body such that she can have children. My only problem would be, whether the authorities of the country would let her do so or if they would allow a sneaky arrangement or if they would outright destroy the household of the newlywed couple.

Citing Nicole Czarnecki twice:

1) "Biblically, Israelites/Jews weren’t even counted in a census until they were 20 years of age. God would never act in a way to contravene His own Word; so, there’s no way that Mary would’ve even become pregnant before the age of 20."

Census has exactly what to do with marriage?

Plus where is the Biblical term for a census? King David's? Moses? I think these were censuses counting men, and their wives may have been younger.

2) "There have been clearly evil people whom have used that justification to justify child marriage in, e.g., every society from the “Holy” Roman Empire to even as recent as 1900s Armenia—as, for instance, Sano Halo was forcibly married to her husband when she was 15 and he was 45."

I regret if anyone was forcibly married to her husband, but the age relation is such is not a problem. I also see no need to demonise either Holy Roman Empire, or 1900's Armenia or South Carolina in 1990's (when a girl married at 12 to quit school and Clinton promised or threatened to make this impossible for the future).

As to the infidels who find fault with Gospels as sources or who doubt Our Lord was not just Her first, but even Her only child, no need to adress such apostates.

EDIT : I checked King David's census, and in II Kings (II Samuel) it speaks of "valiant men" - not of men, women and children. Confer the numberings on the occasions when Our Lord multiplied breads.

EDIT 2 : the “18” figure for Roman taxation I got from a business owner who may not have been so knowledgeable.

Did Jesus marry Mary Magdalene? The novel Da Vinci Code says that Jesus still has a bloodline protected by some group of Christians.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University
Answered just now
Not while Our Lord was alive.

The novel Da Vinci Code actually doesn't say this is the case, it allows Teabing to say it is the case.

As to after Christ was crucified, check Deuteronomy 25:5-10. Our Lord had no actual widow but a widow could have been designated for the purpose, as I think was the case with Jeremiah who also died celibate.

If such a bloodline came into existence, it would arguably be better known to Judaism.

As to "desposynoi" it means "relatives of the Lord" and this means descendants of Our Lord's brothers and sisters, and among Christians none were singled out as being descended from someone engendered in levirate, since we Christians hold Our Lord is not dead, but rose from the dead and is ever alive, and does not need levirate to have His name preserved. Last time desposynoi were referred to as such was c. 400 AD. They had pleaded for Sabbath keeping or keeping Easter on 14th of Nisan and were asked to step back, being blood relatives of Our Lord's brethren and sisters does not make them bishops.

If there were any left or if there were even a levirate related blood line, there is no need for faithful Catholics to see any problem in it, they would have a certain honour (though inferior to canonised saints) but would not as such have power in the Church. Therefore, stepping forth with a claim to such a relation is no threat to Catholicism per se and no sane Catholic would have any reason to persecute such a blood line, and therefore there would be no need to protect it.

As to the Priory of Sion, it is a fictional secret society, not a historically known one, though the fiction does some name drop into who (among known historical figures) would have been "grand masters" of it. Yolande of Bar was a fine person, but there was no "Priory of Sion" for her to be grandmaster of.

How do people decipher fictional languages with seemingly random and unfamiliar symbols?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
avid reader back when I had better sleep than now
Answered 44m ago
I presume that by "fictional" you mean things like Quenya and Syldavian.

I don't really know whether "seemingly random and unfamiliar symbols" refers to words and endings or to writing system.

I do know that in novels they are usually used in such a way that the reader doesn't need to.

Strange words are left strange or translated immediately or etc. The author did not need to "decipher" them, since he made them up.

Strange writing systems are sometimes used in comic books as shorthand for untranslated strange languages. Actually, Syldavian is a bit like that, it is nearly Brussels-Flemish with a few added quirks and written with a strange orhography.

When they are really meant as how a fictional language is written, they are usually transliterated, like the picture of the inscription on the Gates of Moria is given with transliteration beneath:

And then Gandalf in the text of the book provides a translation "The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter. I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs." - and then it turns out instead of "Speak, friend, and enter," it should be "say 'friend' and enter".

The ambiguity of the sentence is one of the qualities Tolkien gave the fictional language Sindarin. This should lead to the question how one makes such a thing.

By the way, the technical term is not "fictional language" but "conlang" or "constructed language".

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