Bias in the Sources for Heathenry? Misunderstood Myths of Ancient Norse Records
9th of July 2021 | Ocean Keltoi
- 4:51 "several generations" - you are more in this than I am, so ...
Taking destruction of Troy as 1179 BC, taking Odin's arrival as either time of Cyrus or at latest Alexander (Saxo) or as time of Julius Caesar (Fjölner drowns in mead in the court of a contemporary of Augustus), does the number of generations come close to matching either number of years?
- 10:18 W a i t ... did Saxo consider Odin longlived enough to make later appearances in person? Same guy who went to Uppsala?
My own euhemerism on this is, the wizard who plunged a sword later known as Gram in the oak in Völse's hall, either was later mistaken for Odin, or simply played the part (a bit like Phantom of Bengali pretends to have been alive for centuries).
Specifically, did Saxo consider the Odin who betrayed Bjarki as identic to the one who had come to Uppsala?
I think he specifically says, Odin was burned after death and Med-Odin ("the co-Odin") went down as a vampire killed in Finland, so putting Odin in Bjarki's time as identic to either would be anachronistic, strong sense, like Perseus meeting an Atlas mad bc Hercules had fooled him.
- 15:46 One rune stone in Sweden contains the earliest version of Hail Mary.
A rune stone need not be sourced by a heathen, and if you imagine "if it contains Norse legend, it was" take a look at staff churches with Sigurd killing Favne on the porches.
- 16:46 Unless the very euhemeristic Odin who came to Uppsala was a pre-Christian Hebrew.
Talmudic alias : Yeshu, wayward disciple of a rabbi also named Yehoshua and also not Our Lord.
Indirect Gospel alias : gramp of James and John.
Book of Daniel is as likely a source as Book of Apocalypse.
It may be noted that one of the earliest Christian writings from German territory is Muspilli - a résumé of parts of the Apocalypse with Daniel, and this choice could very well reflect pre-Christian occupations of these peoples.
- 17:57 Havamal very certainly doesn't show Odin anyway near like Christ. "ölr var ek" - I was drunk.
But the verses very well could go back to Qohelet in some instances, and if Odin came to Uppsala, he would have spoken them in proto-Norse - and the "deyr fé" stanza definitely can be phonetically translated back to proto-Norse and give an overall metric (though not identic metre) impression in that guise too.
Again, the somewhat clumsy and not quite morally upright person we see fits a certain guy in the Talmud, whom Jews should not have confused with Christ. Founder of an idolatrous sect - but not of Christianity.
- 23:22 I am most certainly not an ex-Christian.
However, I'd add that Nerthus worship in Tacitus:
* concerns an idol of the cosmic, totally non-eumeric kind (a demon)
* and that her name is identic to that of Odin's rival (both Saxo and Snorre's Heimskringla consider Skade = Frigga).
I think it is very possible an indigenous heathen priest or priest king, named Nerthus for the goddess he worshipped, became divinised in the new cult he helped to start.
And which hadn't come through as far down as in Denmark yet, which is where Tacitus discusses her.
- After the video : euhemerism.
As you mention, it served to discredit the heathen as theologians, they mistook men for god.
It also served to credit them as historians. "Yeah, sure, Romulus was no god, but his followers took him for one, because they loved him" ... freely after St. Augustine. In other words, Romulus existed.
Your avoidance of euhemerism balks you from seeing that beings we take for men, but heathens took for gods are at the dawn of the Yngling dynasty. I may be partial, as a Swede.
Speaking of which, Snorre, as a post-Republican Icelander, that is as a Norwegian subject, was also partial to the Ynglings, and that is why he, unlike Saxo, credited them with Trojan ancestry - you know the ancestry that makes Aeneas stand out as ancestor of Caesar or Brutus as ancestor of British kings ("when the siege and the assault had ceased at Troy" if you recall the prologue to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight in Tolkien's translation).
Saxo was less partial to Ynglings, so he didn't. While being equally euhemerist and putting Odin's appearance right in Sweden, not Denmark. Despite Skjoldungs being credited with Odinid ancestry.
A N D the one Christian historian who did discredit the historic existance of Odin also put him round the timespan where Snorre does "but that tale is ridiculous, for one it is the true God who gives victory and not these false gods, and for another, Godan is a Greek magician called Mercury, who lived 1000 years earlier." (Freely after Historia or Gesta Langobardorum, by Paul the Deacon).
You describe Odin in Havamal, "hanged and sacrificed to himself" (you know the poem more by heart than I do) as a reference to Christ, but have you considered, there are Shamans who do rites after which they consider themselves as incarnating the relevant gods or spirits ... hanging nine nights from a tree (I don't think he said "dead") and surviving after it, sounds like the nose wasn't tight around the neck and probably some sort of Shamanistic initiation.