Saturday, September 11, 2021

Catholic Truth Channel Takes on Ray Comfort about Reformation

A Catholic DEBUNKS Ray Comfort and Living Waters (Their False Catholic History)
1 sept. 2021 | Catholic Truth

before watching, dialogue

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Ah ... their false Catholic history ... when will you do one about yours, when you still pretend, some of you, a Fundamentalist reading of the Bible is Protestant, while both Trent (a real council) and "Vatican II" (a fake one but with remaining nuggets of Catholicity) in Session V on original sin and in paragraph 3 of Dei Verbum argue the history from Adam to Abraham is real?

Catholic Truth
If you don't accept Vatican II you are not even a Catholic, but a schismatic. We will pray for you, and that's not what this video is about. We will have videos on this topic soon though. If you would like to make an actual comment on the video and what we discussed, feel free, and your comment will stay. God bless.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Catholic Truth If you accept either Trent or Vatican II or both, you are either a Young Earth Creationist or a Heretic according to the councils you accept.

I was thrown out from Catholic answers for defending that and Geocentrism.

That said, you tell me when a new video adresses that - as for the topic, I have done several answers on it myself.

3:58 It can be noted, in 1517, 95 theses, he was more like Jansenist than properly speaking Protestant.

4:45 Zwingli and Oecolampadius disagreed with Luther right away.

Bucer and his continuators Calvin and Cranmer after Bucer tried to mediate between Zwingli and Luther.

Calvin got denial of Real Presence from Zwingli and Predestination by going just a little bit stronger than Luther did in De Servo Arbitrio. He and Zwingli agreed on Presbyterian organisation, while Anglicans went with continuing to have - but with no true apostolic succession, soon - "bishops". Luther considered than an adiaphoron.

But yes, Protestants disagreeing with each other is fairly much Protestantism in a nutshell.

7:44 My bottom line - if you have a link to an online text of Tetzel's theses, I'd definitely like to share it.

Btw, the Comfort video stated the 95 theses started the split, not that they immediately consumed it.

8:06 Luther didn't launch any Reformation in 1517, but he certainly did so with his new liturgy in Wittenberg which left out the canon prayer from what he still considered as Mass (except for words of institution) and when he reduced the sacraments to three. See what happens after his return to Wittenburg March 6 1522:

"Luther next set about reversing or modifying the new church practices. By working alongside the authorities to restore public order, he signalled his reinvention as a conservative force within the Reformation.[94] After banishing the Zwickau prophets, he faced a battle against both the established Church and the radical reformers who threatened the new order by fomenting social unrest and violence.[95]"'_War

If you scroll up to previous paragraphs, you'll find:

"In the summer of 1521, Luther widened his target from individual pieties like indulgences and pilgrimages to doctrines at the heart of Church practice. In On the Abrogation of the Private Mass, he condemned as idolatry the idea that the mass is a sacrifice, asserting instead that it is a gift, to be received with thanksgiving by the whole congregation.[84] His essay On Confession, Whether the Pope has the Power to Require It rejected compulsory confession and encouraged private confession and absolution, since "every Christian is a confessor."[85] In November, Luther wrote The Judgement of Martin Luther on Monastic Vows. He assured monks and nuns that they could break their vows without sin, because vows were an illegitimate and vain attempt to win salvation.[86]"

So, by 1521, Luther most certainly was launching a reformation, though not the same as that of Ray Comfort.

8:20 While I agree he made things worse, I don't agree with the implication they were bad before, and he did not content himself (or for that matter consider he was doing so) with dividing, he set out to eradicate practises he thought erroneous, and which we hold to be dogmatically obligatory.

It's a bad play on words to say he didn't launch what is known as the Reformation, just because he didn't actually reform things correctly. Unlike, for instance, St. Ignatius of Loyola.

9:03 "schism is one of the biggest condemnations in the Bible"

Yeah, second to heresy, like when Our Lord condemned Sadducees for not believing the Resurrection or an afterlife while waiting even, or when both St. Paul writing to Timothy and St. John state that the last days will see an upsurge of errors.


how St. Peter prophecies errors against Creation and Flood.

12:54 Unfortunately, Jacobus Latomus was contradicted by Luther.

Jacobus Latomus insists that Abraham was justified for no previous works, in the instant he believed what God was telling him. But he also insists, this does not mean one can live as sinfully as one likes after being saved. Or that one need never do external works of penance. Luther contradicted this.

19:59 Thank you for the editing, Kate!

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