Saturday, March 26, 2022

I'm More Agreeing than Disagreeing with Fr. Charron

Video I
Is Putin a Christian? Really?!? w/ Fr. Jason Charron
24th March 2022 | Pints With Aquinas

I'm reminded of trying to find out whether he ever stated believing as a fact that Our Lord rose from the dead. I don't mean liturgic affirmations, like "Hristos Voskrese" - but stating it outside the liturgic context.

He has more than once said he believes in "Christian values" but on at least one occasion, it seems he made it clear it was not specifically Christian, he equally respected Jewish and Islamic values, which are not the same ones.

For instance, it is not an Islamic value to give me alcoholic beverages, even if they otherwise often give what I ask, when begging, and even if there is no valid sign I'm getting drunk or spending hours tipsy.

I mean, Anders Behring Breivik, currently in a 20 year sentence in Norway, the Utøya killer, was stating he believed in "Christian values" - but actually believing there was a personal God who created us or believing the Gospels happened, let alone doubting Evolution, that was not on his palette.

From an Orthodox PoV, the liturgical affirmation is what counts most.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Arimathean While the liturgical affirmation is more solemn, it is sometimes more hollow.

1:57 Up to recent, Putin's Russia is killing more babies than US was (even before Trump).

Putin - like Biden - is not Kaczynski.

4:06 Ah, thank fr. Jason so heartily for not turning an eye on the Covid policies of Russia.

2020, Tuesday 4th of August (St. Dominic's Day, I'm unlikely to forget that) NYT featured a long story on Russia's vaccine race.

Take a little look at what it actually says there, and please do send a copy of it to the halfblind Viganò (as he is at least on this matter).

Augustus Autumn
Interesting that you condemn a bishop that has done more to expose Satan in the church than anyone else. Makes me wonder about your own loyalty...

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Augustus Autumn Have I said I condemn him? No.

I have called him halfblind, not blind. And on this matter, not on every matter.

My loyalty?

I adher to Pope Michael. Viganò to a false pope, even if "adher" is by now overstating it.

And the problem is, he seems perfectly willing to take directives from Putin when it comes to exposing Satan.

He and Pagès have both signed a document that condemns the vaccines of Moderna and Pfizer but doesn't name Sputnik-V, where not just pre-work and testing, as with Pfizer, but exactly every dose depends on viruses cultivated in living cells, these being from an aborted fetus.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Augustus Autumn For reminders, you are the guy who pretended Church Fathers and Scholastics didn't literally believe in the Biblical timeline.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Augustus Autumn I also have loyalties to both Sweden and Germany.

Both have been allied to Ukraine against Russia.

So, therefore to Ukraine too.

Video II
Why Are Catholics DEFENDING Vigano? w/ Fr. Jason Charron
25th March 2022 | Pints With Aquinas

1:42 It can be added, Napoleon seems to have actually died as a pious Catholic, in exile, even if he didn't rule like one, from Paris.

Fr. Charron considered Napoleon only used the Church.

1:47 "like Stalin did" - I thought you just said Stalin banned abortions?

By 2018, Putin still had Russia fifth worst aborter (per live births) in Europe, and even so, he didn't ban abortion.

One thing that makes me glad to be back to Catholic (after Orthodox excursion 2006-2009) is, top five worst aborters are Orthodox, least offending ones are Catholic countries - Poland and Croatia being the best ones.

I think Malta was out of those stats, since Malta didn't - perhaps still doesn't - have legal abortion.

According to most lists I found online, Russia has the world's highest abortion rate. In the Soviet era, artificial birth control was not widely available in the USSR, so abortion became routine and generally accepted. I have always suspected that it was actually intended to undermine respect for life. In any case, abortion is now an established part of Russian culture, and the Orthodox Church speaks against it only in pro forma ways intended not to draw attention or be taken too seriously.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Arimathean In 2018, Russia was fifth. Georgia, Romania, Moldova and one more were worse.

Georgia, Moldova, and I think that one more too, also being successor states to the USSR.

2:38 "since the 1960's"

Doesn't that remind us, chronologically, of some "conciliar documents" and some "liturgic reform"?

Fr. Charron said since then the hierarchy hasn't been giving a good liturgy, doctrine, pastoral.

3:50 Reminds me, it is very possible that exactly no one of the twelve stayed true, that St. John the Beloved was not St. John of Zebedee, one of the twelve.

There was a Bible verse about all scattering (of the twelve) that was one of the arguments for Fr. Jean Colson's idea, St. John the Gospeller was a Cohen and one of the 72, not a fisherman, not one of the 12.

Fr. Charron said "only one of the twelve" was under the cross, or stayed true. So, according to Fr. Colson, it would have been "not even one" of them.

I disagree on his point "we can't have imperial Christianity" - it's possible we can't have it any more, but what we've had between Constantine and Nicolas II, between Constantine and Charles I, has not been an overall bad thing. If the West was overall better than the Byzantine East, it at least started in a Roman Imperial mode, like King Ina's laws in England coming from Codex Iuris Civilis or like Clovis being at once King of Franks and Patrician of Rome (title given by the Basileus Anastasius I Dicorus - who seems to have not been quite Orthodox).

One of the reasons Putin isn't banning abortion is, Patriarch Kirill has said much the same thing "forbidding abortion is Christian Shariah". Even if that was some time ago.

A certain document from a purported council stated freedom of religion is due in natural law, except the limits of the "good social order" - one can argue, this simply means, we shan't discriminate against Jews for being Jews (I mean confessionally, and I mean those who are not Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus), but some have taken it, one can't even forbid abortion, because they wouldn't agree (Mark Shea made a point on Soros who promotes abortion simply following his religion, I looked it up, unfortunately true).

Now, as said, the point against Putin isn't "we can't have imperial Christianity" - the point is, Putin is neither imperial nor Christian in his rule. More like Tataric Secularist.

Recently, when Putin claimed the West was trying to "cancel" Russian culture, it occurred to me that the figure from Russian history Putin most closely resembles is the Mongolian warlord Batu Khan, who laid waste to the lands of the Kievan Rus.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Arimathean Yes, there is sth to that.

Video III
Russia's Attack on Ukraine is About Religious Freedom w/ Fr. Jason Charron
17th March 2022 | Pints With Aquinas

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