Spot the Moral Monster + Other Stuff

Spot the Moral Monster + Other Stuff · Karl Keating Disclaims Responsibility for Paris Archdiocese Having a Prejudice on YEC = Protestant, Claims he Never Said So

Is Psychiatry a Moral Monster?

Jewish Kirt Schneider was locked up by his own family, only because he said I believe in Jesus!
ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry | 1.VIII.2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dz2swDzMlU

Seems so.

Now some, including I presume some within this moral monster that psychiatry is, have asked "is God a moral monster" or "is the God of the Bible" (if they acknowledge there could be some god but hope it's someone else) "a moral monster".

Here is an answer to that one from CMI:

Is God a Moral Monster?
Creation Ministries International | 3.XII.2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3pufFpDiF0

Three comments on it, from me:

I

7:22 The soldiers? Not camp guards, but common soldiers?

In the case of those shooting Jews on the East Front, how about the knowledge Trotsky recruited the Cheka mostly from Jews? A bit like those Poles who burned a synagogue in a barn after finding a bust of Lenin in it.

In the case of shooting every resistant caught on the West Front, how about taking a "code of war" from Coligny who had (prior to being killed at St. Bartholomew two years after the peace) executed 250 peasant resistants during the recent religious wars?

Berlin, like Belfast, was one of the main refuges of the Huguenots.

And some Calvinists had in fact compared Catholics to Canaanites. Check Oliver Cromwell.

As to camp guards, lao gais and abortion clinics have sufficient recruitment to this day ...

II

dialogue:

Hans-Georg Lundahl

8:18 Genesis 3 ... with a mere 2000 to 3000 years between Adam and birth of Abraham (depending on version) and with lots of people living into 900's in the first part, there is not much of a problem, is there, knowing about it?

Especially as the texts are short enough to learn by heart.

I just challenged two Catholics (a priest at a Paris parish and Karl Keating) how they, accepting evolution and deep time, account for us knowing the Genesis 3 events.

For a Catholic, the chapter is ultra important not just about the general condition of man prior to grace, but about the Blessed Virgin. I am not a Hebraist, but the impression I got from being around one is, "enmities" as plural of "enmity" would imply complete enmity.

And complete enmity with Satan would imply no sin. This is said of the woman, not just of her fruit or seed. In St. Luke 1, She doesn't completely get what's being said until Elisabeth basically identifies the fruit of Her womb with the Woman's Seed. Considering Jael and Judith, She must have been confused for a moment what enemy of Israel She had utterly defeated.

So, Genesis 3 being this important for Catholics, I wonder how Evolution believers among them account for us knowing it in detail, like knowing the exact words of God to the serpent.

One of them said "it was revealed" - but that is not how it has come to us, like a vision or anything reported as such. Tradition from the time of Adam and Eve is what makes sense.

Creation Ministries International

That is very interesting! Head over to creation.com and search our huge database of articles to see if you can learn more about what how catholics explain Genesis 3! Here is one article that might help! https://creation.com/the-gift-of-scripture-its-an-issue-of-authority

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Creation Ministries International The traditional view is God made the Jewish Church from Moses and Aaron up to Kaiaphas to safeguard His revelation (identify, copy, and authoritatively interpret the books of the Old Testament) and that God founded the Catholic Church with a similar mission from Pentecost day on, to Doomsday.

This means, Catholics, traditionally, have the same epistemology about Genesis as trad minded Jews or trad minded Protestants.

Now, you may have noticed I put Kaiaphas at the end of the Jewish Church. It did commit a treason at the very end. As you know from John 4, this doesn't mean Jesus sided with Samaritans as to where the authority was. It's just - Kaiaphas was not on par with his predecessors. Many believe while a true Pope cannot be the false prophet (worst case scenario : could be, like infallible on rare occasions of definitions, very errant on other occasions when not protected, like airport interviews), most certainly a fake pope, a non-Catholic anti-pope, could fill such a role.

In other words, much of what you are identifying as "Catholics" are to me an "end times counter Church". After the worship of Ceres of the Andes, aka as Pachamama, this view is gaining ground with some who would hitherto have been timid about going that far. Did you know that, like Pachamama is sometimes depicted as a woman, she is also sometimes depicted as a serpent or dragon? And that a Roman Pagan priest of Ceres actually summoned a dragon from Hell? It was St. Front of Perigueux who exorcised it.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

[added]

On the precise epistemology of Genesis 1 to 11, or if 1:1 to 2:4 was a vision of Moses, 2:5 to 11, Haydock gives this account:

Concerning the transactions of these early times, parents would no doubt be careful to instruct their children, by word of mouth, before any of the Scriptures were written; and Moses might derive much information from the same source, as a very few persons formed the chain of tradition, when they lived so many hundred years. Adam would converse with Mathusalem, who knew Sem, as the latter lived in the days of Abram. Isaac, Joseph, and Amram, the father of Moses, were contemporaries: so that seven persons might keep up the memory of things which had happened 2500 years before. But to entitle these accounts to absolute authority, the inspiration of God intervenes; and thus we are convinced, that no word of sacred writers can be questioned. H.

E-Catholic 2000 : Haydock Comment : Genesis 3
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/untitled-05.shtml#navPoint_6

As I go by the LXX based (mostly so) chronology of the Roman Martyrology, I differ in detail, but not in principle. From Abraham on, too, written texts may well have been safeguarded by the beduin tribe that was heading for Goshen. And while a Pharao tried to kill their first born, he didn't try to burn their books.

Obviously, those who would like to put Adam at 90 000 BP could not make this work, especially as this would provide us with Genesis 5 and 11 as bungled transmission.

I made this challenge to Robert Barron:

Creation vs. Evolution : Length of Two Texts
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2019/11/length-of-two-texts.html

Hans-Georg Lundahl

[after looking up their article]

Reading from your article:

"This appears strange to those wedded to the concept of sola scriptura (the Bible alone). Even Catholic creationists, such as Fr David Becker, abhor evolution mainly because it constitutes a ‘departure from the Sacred Tradition of the Church’, rather than its opposition to Scripture. He rightly criticises theologians who imply that ‘no longer would Original Sin be an historic event, a real breach of holy obedience committed by two real people’, yet he places on the same level as his belief in creation that of ‘the infallibility of the Church and of the Pope.’"

Infallibility of the Church is in fact Biblical, so is papacy being its supreme judge under God, and infallibility of the pope is a conclusion from these two (whoever really is that, in my view definitely not "Pope Francis" or his predecessor, the very evolutionist "Benedict XVI") - so this is Gospel truth, is Biblical.

By contrast sola scriptura is not only non in scriptura but even contra scripturam. St. Paul's II Thess. 2:15.

"Ruth Gledhill says that ‘the document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system’. This is historically inaccurate."

It's not. Galileo was the original proponent of NOMa.

"Galileo didn’t threaten Biblical ideas, but the Platonic world view that the Roman Church was tied to at the time.’"

Aristotelic? Platonic? Why not Confucian while you are at it? Ptolemy would be closest and in fact every contradiction between Ptolemy and Galileo was left alone, the charges were about where Galileo flouted the actual account of Joshua's long day and connected Scripture. Catholicism was no more tied to Ptolemy than being able to revise so much that all sense data given by Kepler's time to account for were in Riccioli's Almagestum Novum accounted for Geocentrically.

Ptolemy would have solid spheres? The Church was fine without solid spheres. Ptolemy would have perfect circles? Copernicus was more tied up with perfect circles than the judges of Galileo. And so on, you keep repeating a falsehood about history here.

As an overview : I believe the bishops or even laymen who issued The Gift of Scripture belong to the end times counterchurch. To me, they are not properly Catholic.

III

9:57 "it's actually our sin nature"

Being born with original sin will certainly damn until that is removed, but only to limbo.

To go to Hell, one needs to be in a state of personal mortal sin.

Those who don't receive grace sooner or later fall that way, due to original sin.

But Hell, with pains, is still about what we do, not just about what we are.

Until, in some cases, a mortal sin is forgiven after repentance.

What do Some Prefer to Call "Mythic Elements" or "Mythologic Elements"?

Q

What are mythic elements?
https://www.quora.com/What-are-mythic-elements/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 1m ago

Very good question.

When a legend involves details that a modern researcher does not believe, he considers it has “mythic elements”.

This means, basically, the researcher is willing to say, this or that is not true, because it is taken from myths, which by definition are not true.

Fun fact : there is no such definition about all and everything that’s currently labelled myth. At least not other than extremely modern ones.

Greek myth has two main components, “myths about gods” and “heroic legends”.

The older (Patristic) view is, while the gods about whom some myths are (like Uranos, Gaia, Kronos and Rhea, their children of whom Zeus was the youngest and one survivor of Kronos’ theophagy etc) are not real, with some reservations on when gods appear to heros (they might be heros or they might be demons), the legends about the heros mainly are true (with pagan false gods and false accounts of what happened after so and so’s death obviously as exceptions to the rule).

The modern view simply means, if a story includes such and such a literary figure, it means it isn’t a true account of true facts. While reality coincides with any types of stories, and is collected and narrated by any type of narrators, including pagan myth makers who relate their heros to false gods.

So, there are some kinds of stories which usually are not labelled Greek myth or Norse myth, but nevertheless one or other modern researcher will pretend of this or that detail it can’t have happened, because that is the kind of thing a Greek or Norse storyteller would have included in a Heroic legend. Those details, these researchers will then call “mythic elements” or “mythologic elements”.

Quoran Harrassment?

Seems so, and I react to it as such:

Question for You

24m

What is before Leo?

Mohammed Saiful Alam Siddiquee is looking for an answer.

What is before Leo?
https://www.quora.com/unanswered/What-is-before-Leo

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered just now

I am sorry, Siddiquee, but I am a bit tired of being asked quiz questions which about anyone could look up - whether by you or others.

I have my time on internet reduced. I do not feel like wasting it on people who "try to determine" whether I am sane or mad, or ignorant or learned.

You seem to be one of these.

For the moment, I had no opportunity to block him.

Back to Flood on Quora

Q I

Was there technology used in the days of Noah?
https://www.quora.com/Was-there-technology-used-in-the-days-of-Noah/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Answer requested by

Alicen Lyne

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 1m ago

Obviously yes.

Mankind has never existed without some kind of technology if that means consciously planned use of resources.

More interesting is : what was the level of technology before the Flood? Was it equal everywhere or unequal? Has the highest pre-Flood level of technology been identified by (mainstream) archaeology or not?

I hold that Neanderthals were pre-Flood, but as far from highest then technology as Chingachgook from the then technology in London or Paris. I also hold that the Nodian civilisation or post-Nodian civilisations had a technology so far not found by mainstream archaeologists.

In other words, archaeologists identifying a start of the Bronze Age as much as a start of the Iron Age do not correspond to the technology of Tubal-Cain identically, but to post-Flood recoveries of it, as copper ore, tin and iron ore were found.

Since Copper, Tin and Iron are found at different places, Tubal-Cain in order to work both bronze and iron needed fairly extensive geographic knowledge.

As someone else mentioned they didn’t have moon rockets, I agree - partly. I think a project to get them was postponed by God in Genesis 11. I think Nimrod’s model for rockets to heaven would have exploded and killed a lot of people. And that the language dispersion involved a change of culture in which that project was not any more openly talked about. They didn’t have moon rockets, like Leonardo da Vinci didn’t have air planes or parachutes : namely functioning ones (however, Nimrod is starting his project after Noah died on the chronology I go by).

Q II

In layman terms, what is the story of the Tower of Babel?
https://www.quora.com/In-layman-terms-what-is-the-story-of-the-Tower-of-Babel/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Answer requested by

Nathan Defa

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Mon

Actual answer : it’s the story of a skyscraper or perhaps skyline or perhaps ziggurat or perhaps stargate or perhaps rocket NOT being built until it was finished back then, BECAUSE God after inspecting the works decided to break up mankind into different peoples unable to communicate with each other.

The words which can be interpreted in more than one way are: and a tower, the top whereof may reach to heaven (from Genesis 11:4)

Personal side note : as I am into Göbekli Tepe being the City of Babel, which was left unfinished with no further building attempts, and as nothing there resembles either a skyscraper or a ziggurat and no one would know how a stargate would look, I am into rocket version of interpretation : unlike the city, the project would not have been totally abandoned, since it has later in public been successfully resumed at Cape Canaveral and other places, and since most of known history has involved star gazing as one potential preparation for it.

Debate with Paul Myers

Debate with Paul Myers · Paulogia also doesn't get what is reasonable evidence for 1st C events · Holy Koolaid attacked Bible History with HolyKoolaid Tries to Back Up his Attack Against Exodus · Paulogia took on the Tower

Would the Bible be more believable if it had specific dates of every event that happened?
https://www.quora.com/Would-the-Bible-be-more-believable-if-it-had-specific-dates-of-every-event-that-happened/answer/Paul-Myers-60

Paul Myers

IFR pilot, former animator, studying Japanese, anime fan

Answered Nov 24

No. The bible would be more believable if it included sources, testable experiments and repeatable tests that can be verified by the intelligent community at large rather than second-hand accounts of a few peasants who claimed they saw a guy do something fascinating.

And using actual dates would allow us to pit real geology, paleontology, and astronomy against the claims of the bible and better disprove their claims. Using actual dates would put an end to Christianity because then we would have proof that it was all made up.

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Tue

“The bible would be more believable if it included sources, testable experiments and repeatable tests that can be verified by the intelligent community at large”

OK, so Livy lacking these for Second Punic War makes Hannibal’s march over the Alps unbelievable?

Paul Myers

Original Author

Tue

How does Hannibal’s march have anything to do with the fables, fairy tales, and unprovable scientific claims of the bible? You lost me there.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Wed

I am applying your criteria.

Livy included no sources for Second Punic War. He did not claim to have conducted experiments on guiding elephants over Alps, and he had no repeatable tests for piercing rock with acid.

Let alone any that can be verified by the [present] community at large.

Ergo, on your criteria against the Bible, we should also consider Second Punic War in Livy as “fables, fairy tales, and unprovable scientific claims”.

Paul Myers

Original Author

Wed

Well I tried to look it up. It actually tells me the name Hannibal does not appear in the bible. Therefore, my statement remains valid.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fri

Your reply presupposes you make special rules that apply only to the Bible.

My question is, how does Hannibal fare if you apply the same criteria to Livy as to Biblical authors?

Same, not special.

Paul Myers

Original Author

13h ago

We don’t make special rules for the bible, and even history is dependent on which witness accounts you go by. Obviously JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald, but there has been a lot of speculation since then whether that is true or not, and why he was shot.

So of course history can be biased as well. But for Hannibal, I’m sure there were scattered remains from his elephant cavalry that could confirm where his army has marched. This is possible because Hannibal was a real person. Unfortunately for the bible, god and Jesus have no such evidence of their existence..

Hans-Georg Lundahl

1h ago

“ there were scattered remains from his elephant cavalry that could confirm where his army has marched.”

None found.

We have Livy, we don’t have his sources, we don’t have archaeological evidence.

In other words, we have as much evidence for Hannibal as for Biblical characters in the flesh.

Updates

Since there are more than one, a "Just now" may be followed by a "21 h. ago".

Paul Myers

Original Author

10h ago

Of course they found elephant dung.

Sci News : Scientists Find Hannibal’s Route through Alps
Apr 7, 2016 by Enrico de Lazaro
http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/hannibals-route-alps-03763.html

But yeah, that seems to be all they found, though it doesn’t sound like they looked at the basin where some may have lost their footing and fallen down the basin. Plus, excavating is illegal for the purposes of preserving the site, just in case there are actual finds like swords, armor, human remains and such.

You are probably thinking, “poop is your only proof?”. It’s proof enough that non- indigenous elephants traversed there, and is still far more proof than anything written in the bible.

That being said, I do still hold out skepticism on some of the claims from history as well. We all know Columbus never sailed to the North American continent, the landing of Plymouth rock was bloodier than described, and so forth.

So I agree in part with your claim that we shouldn't take much of what is written in history books at face value because of ethnic, religious or cultural opinion influencing the records.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

It was not even dated, that poop. (Though other poop was, and it had the correct bacterial signature from that time).

Plus, obviously, historians were (justifiedly) not waiting till the poop was found to be sure of Hannibal.

We have much more than that for Christ, like Shroud of Turin and like Holy Cross.

“your claim that we shouldn't take much of what is written in history books at face value because of ethnic, religious or cultural opinion influencing the records”

I never said that.

I do say we depend on cultural opinion for most of our knowledge of the past. Including religious such.

Paul Myers

Original Author

21h ago

And therein lies the bias: cultural opinion. Germany lost world war 2, so very little is mentioned about Hitler and his rise to power over there. Over here, many of the Americans today never even heard of the atrocities of Nanjing because it never concerned us. So yes, history can be biased, and often can be wrong or even omit major facts from its records.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

Omitting facts is not the same thing as making facts up.

And “very little is mentioned about Hitler and his rise to power over there” is not true about school systems everywhere.

Do you pretend we should doubt that Hitler came to power in 1933 or that he was at least reported dead by suicide in the bunker 1945?

With World War II, we certainly have lots more records around now, than we have for things that happened 2000 years ago … but this is not a valid reason to make it into a myth if 2000 years from now all that survives of World War II records is Patrick Buchanan’s Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War.

Note it is from 2008, so 63 years posterior to 1945.

Paul Myers

Original Author

16h ago

Of course not. We need to learn about history so that we don’t make the same mistakes. But we are doomed to repeat them if many of the entries are glorified or misrepresented or outright omitted.

But when it comes to the bible, everything was outright fabricated and obviously misrepresented with their lack of knowledge or scientific understanding. So of course it still stands to reason that no one should take any serious lessons from the bible.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

“everything was outright fabricated”

Your problem is, your argument would make Livy’s account of Hannibal a likely fabrication, at least before recent finds of elephant dung.

“and obviously misrepresented”

How do you misrepresent a fabricated fact?

“with their lack of knowledge”

How can anyone be ignorant of the events happening then and there?

“or scientific understanding”

Since when is scientific understanding a prerequisite for accurate grasp and accurate transmission of events?

“Of course not. We need to learn about history …”

Not the point : my point is about credibility with scanty surviving evidence after long lapses of time.

Would in 2000 years, with Pat Buchanan as only author surviving, World War II still remain a credible event?

Do you even realise that cultural opinion is our main clue to what has happened?

“so that we don’t make the same mistakes”

Totally beside the point. The analysis a historian or history teacher gives abut who made what mistake and what one should have done instead definitely more subjective than what happened and good novels could take the place, if it were just a matter of learning lessons about morals and statecraft.

The question is about how and why history is credible knowledge and “because we know science” is not the answer.

Paul Myers

Original Author

22h ago

No, science is always the answer, and the bible is never the answer. That’s kind of the whole point of why you cannot trust what is written in the bible. So now our debate has gone full circle.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

The debate may have gone so, but I haven’t proven in a circle, nor explained in a circle.

And once again you have made an argument which cannot be consistently applied without debunking much of what no historian would doubt.

Replace Bible, which is a kind of cultural opinion, with the more general term “science is always the answer, and cultural opinion is never the answer” - and all history falls apart, because it is built on cultural opinion and not on science.

Accepting Hannibal going over the Alps with Elephants is ultimately based on considering with the normal and traditional cultural opinion, that Livy was writing history and not the kind of fictional history that is staple of Silmarillion or Appendices to Lord of the Rings.

Not accepting Aragorn as having ruled over Gondor and reunited Arnor is ultimately based on the cultural opinion that Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings several thousand years after the events were set and did so for fun and edification and emotion, but definitely not for the accurate recounting of true facts. And not directly based on any older accounts.

You might add your world view doesn’t allow you to accept a magic ring or a fallen angelic being who is incarnate and looses his last trace of flesh when the ring is destroyed, but for one thing, that need not be taken as all that necessary for the bulk of the story and for another, some do not share your world view. It is not accepted as universal key to what cannot be history - except half and half by modern historians who might change their methodology for the better if given a chance to survive.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

To summarise previous : “science is the answer” may be your motivation for not trusting the Bible, but it is definitely not the motivation for trusting any non-Biblical history - including such as science cannot do without.

Paul Myers

Original Author

1h ago

That’s what you said earlier: with the absence of actual evidence, we need to treat all history as if it may be as fictional as what the bible says.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

Correction on what I actually said:

“with the absence of actual evidence”

With the actual evidence being sources centuries later.

“we need to treat all history as if it may be as fictional as what the bible says.”

We need to treat the Bible as a source on par with accepted historic sources, until disproven by better sources.

Paul Myers

Original Author

Thu

Okay, I can agree with that statement. Especially if our only evidence is piles of elephant dung. Your point is well taken.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

No, our only evidence is NOT elephant dung. It is only our only evidence of YOUR “canonic” types.

Our main evidence is cultural opinion traceable closer back to events than any contrary (if such exists).

Precisely as my view Tolkien is not history is based on the cultural opinion as far as I know going back to while LotR was written. And my view Gospels are history is based on Papias being older than Voltaire.

II

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

“And using actual dates would allow us to pit real geology, paleontology, and astronomy against the claims of the bible and better disprove their claims. Using actual dates would put an end to Christianity because then we would have proof that it was all made up.”

This is a new thread, would you mind giving examples?

Feel free to use the dates I gave in my answer.

Own answer

Would the Bible be more believable if it had specific dates of every event that happened?
https://www.quora.com/Would-the-Bible-be-more-believable-if-it-had-specific-dates-of-every-event-that-happened/answers/182821114

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Tue

Secondary literature to the Bible has figured out the dates, with some discrepancy between Historia scholastica (which had its dates included in Roman Martyrology) and George Syncellus.

For Historia Scholastica, you get Christ born 5199 after Creation, 2957 after Flood, 2015 after birth of Abraham, 1510 after Exodus, 1032 after anointing of King David (probably should be : 1082 after anointing of King David and 1032 after completion of King Solomon’s Temple).

The Vortex Misreporting on "Pope Francis"

The Vortex — Francis HATES America!
Church Militant | 19.XI.2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wYgt3fKDlc

I

1:46 It is correctly quoted about Europe and "Federal structure".

"Anch'io ho pensato più volte a questo problema e sono arrivato alla conclusione che, non soltanto ma anche per questa ragione, l'Europa deve assumere al più presto una struttura federale. Le leggi e i comportamenti politici che ne derivano sono decisi dal governo federale e dal Parlamento federale, non dai singoli Paesi confederati. Lei del resto questo tema l'ha più volte sollevato, perfino quando ha parlato al Parlamento europeo."

Scalfari intervista Francesco: "Il mio grido al G20 sui migranti"
di EUGENIO SCALFARI | 08 luglio 2017
https://www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2017/07/08/news/scalfari_intervista_francesco_il_mio_grido_al_g20_sui_migranti_-170253225/

But I can't find US needing to be governed by UN.

America having a distorted view etc is not just America, and it's strictly about international politics:

Papa Francesco mi ha detto di essere molto preoccupato per il vertice del "G20". "Temo che ci siano alleanze assai pericolose tra potenze che hanno una visione distorta del mondo: America e Russia, Cina e Corea del Nord, Putin e Assad nella guerra di Siria".

So, it's not American citizens, but US as an international power which has, and this is a problem shared with Russia, China, North Korea, and Assad.

II

2:37 I'm sorry, but I think G20 is closer to a New World Order - and he was against it.

Did you ever check the Italian original, or did you only check the newsoutlet you were quoting?

How An Apocalyptic Preacher And QAnon Followers Made A False Pope Francis Quote Go Viral
Craig Silverman | BuzzFeed News Reporter
Posted on February 14, 2019, at 12:54 p.m. ET
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/false-pope-quote-world-government-takeover-qanon

III

4:51 You spoke of US as the leading nation defeating the Nazis.

Well, a few observations.

• 1) Stalin's Soviet Union was also involved, and US and England graciously paid for the help by granting him Eastern Europe at the Yalta conference.
  
  
• 2) Some of the evils of National Socialism came from US and Canada.
  
  I am speaking of Eugenics.
  
  Some cite Mit brennender Sorge as an Encyclical in which Pius XI condemned Nazi Eugenics. But Eugenics is not singled out in that encyclical. Pius XI condemned Eugenics in fact in 1930, a bit more than 2 years before there was a National Socialist régime. What states were already resorting to it?
  
  As far as I known these "pre-Nazis" were British Columbia and Alberta, South Carolina and Alabama. Sweden and Norway with the Lapps, and perhaps Denmark with Inuits was following suit.
  
  
• 3) Germany got rid of Eugenics as soon as 1945 - thank you Patton, pissing in the Rhine was not pretty, but that's at least one problem it solved! - but the above mentioned states other than Germany continued to 1970's.
  
  
• 4) The least one can say of what Jews surviving the camps had suffered was, a kind of prolonged and very humiliating boot camps. Two nations today stand out for boot camps, US and China. As to Russia, I sense it could be the case too, but reporting is opaque on that front.
  
  How many Jews came to camps and died in them is a question which this country (France) forbids a two way discussion of. But they were at least even on highest counts fewer than death victims of abortion, and, sadly, Trump has made no clear move to outlaw it nation wide.
  
  
• 5) Defending one's borders is correct to do ... up to a point. Berlin wall and that sheriff in Arizona who empties water bottles in Sonora desert to make illegal crossings a death trap passes that point.
  
  When it comes to taking children away - which Obama started - this is also a horror, but it is dwarfed by the horror of non-border issues related to CPS. However, in itself it is a horror, and one which should not be inflicted to immigrants for being immigrants. Nor on others for most other reasons now routinely used : a few months ago, I mentioned, if a parent is known to be worshipping Baal, well, CPS might have a case.

Besides, I'd like to have an exact quote about where antipope Bergoglio considered modern Nationalists as equivalent of Nazis.

IV

5:12 "foundation of a one world government"

I googled : pope francis one world government

Two of the links omitted "one", namely two related to "Pope Francis" and to "World Government" Summit at Dubai/

One was a NYT article on a Pope with a One World Government, namely 7 April 1951:

Pope Backs Plan for World Government; Sees It as a Means to Establish Peace
Special to THE NEW YORK TIMES. April 7, 1951
https://www.nytimes.com/1951/04/07/archives/pope-backs-plan-for-world-government-sees-it-as-a-means-to.html

When it comes to "trespassing into politics" it can be added that Pius XII had a secret correspondence with Truman, about war against another nation with also mixed Catholic and Protestant population, namely Germany.

The other two top links, which had all five words, were from US based Anticatholic Fundie sects, namely Chick publications:

Battle Cry : THE POPE IS ON A ROLL
Issue Date: January/February 2017 | Chick
https://www.chick.com/battle-cry/article?id=the-pope-is-on-a-roll

And ... ah, wait, this second link in fact uses another source:

POPE FRANCIS DEMANDS A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
PTG Blog | 5/23/2019 11:25:51 AM
https://www.proclaimingthegospel.org/site/blogview2.asp?sec_id=180014816&forum_id=180003854&message_id=180068078&topic_id=180021176

It doesn't refer to the interview in 2017, but to ...

Pope Francis has been successfully executing the Vatican's well-defined strategy to create a one world religion. Now he is using his global influence and power to establish a one world government. During a speech on May 8th before the members of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. Pope Francis demanded that a new "supranational, legal constituted body" enforce climate change policies and other worldwide "threats." He advocated a policy of decreased national sovereignty and increased global unity, claiming that planetary problems are exacerbated by "an excessive demand for sovereignty on the part of States."

Would you mind looking up that speech instead of the Scalfari interview?

As this last link is from May 23 this year, 2019, one may presume they are referring to 8 May 2019.

V

5:55 When it comes to Italian military around the Vatican, one can of course wonder why ...

One reason could be, they are guarding Italy against a threat from the Vatican. Or preventing Italians from seeking refuge in it.

One reason could be, they are guarding the Vatican against a threat from Islamic terrorism.

One reason could be, they are guarding the Vatican against a threat from Anticlerical Italian terrorism.

And one reason could be, they are defending the apparent popes against bothersome people like Susana Maiolo or Rev. Georges de Nantes who came to "Paul VI" deposing (or trying to) before him an accusation against "Paul VI" for heresy and schism.

The walls of the Vatican used to be city walls. And the Church State had no such walls around it, or as it is often called in English, Papal States. When St. Pius V expelled Jews in 1568, he did not require them to climb walls or pass through narrow gates.

VI

7:05 the Vatican has yet to comment on the [Scalfari]* interview about Francis reportedly saying

Ho visto l'intervista : non trovó questo detto del antipapa Bergoglio ...

You really don't have anyone speaking Italian and able to check the original source?

Come on, that's not how news outlets should do things, The Vortex!

* Subtitles had Scialfa instead of Scalfari ... so much for AI!

VII

Update on link in IV

It seems Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences had no event on May 8 2019.

It had one Plenary Session on 1-3 May 2019.

Nation, State, Nation-State
http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/events/2019-23/nations.html

Résumé:

• 1) It involves no attack on nations as nations;
• 2) It mentions nation states are not the sole possibility for sovereign states, some nations are shared between more than one state and some states involve more than one nation;
• 3) It calls for supranational sovereignties, and mentions European Union, but it does not call for the world as a whole to become one supranational sovereignty.

So far the Concept Note, it is somewhat unlikely that "Pope Francis" added something radically new, and even unlikelier he had an extra session 5 days after the plenary session in order to add this. I'd consider the news story as equally fake on the PTG Blog. It seems that Chick didn't bother to give a reference in politics, and I haven't seen a fake about the ecumenism with Welby, which they do cite.

Quoran Medley

Some of these in answer to already known Siddiquee.

Prayers for the safety of Mike Horn are appreciated from those who liked this!

Q I

Did Vikings practice religious fanaticism?
https://www.quora.com/Did-Vikings-practice-religious-fanaticism/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Thu

Someone claimed that the Viking plunders against Christians targetting especially monasteries were a payback for Charlemagne allowing the cutting down of Irminsul, the holy oak in Saxony (Saxons like Vikings worshipped Odin and Thor, though there were divergences about other gods, I have no idea what Norse god if any Saxnot would correspond to).

If this is correct, all of the Viking age was one big act of religious fanaticism, comparable to Daesh targetting the Occident.

Even if this is not correct, but just a guess (as far as I know it is a guess, but "just" a guess means the guess is wrong too), when Christianity came, Odin worshippers in Norway and Sweden put up a resistance like this example:

// However, Inge did not permit the people to follow the old ways, unlike his father Stenkil. The Swedes reacted strongly and asked Inge to either comply with the old traditions or abdicate. When Inge proclaimed that he would not abandon Christianity, the people pelted him with stones and chased him away.[3] This was the opportunity for Sweyn to assume power, and the account provided by Hervarar saga concerning his inauguration contains a rare description of the ancient Indo-European ritual of horse sacrifice: //

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blot-Sweyn

This would probably explain the Roman Catholic ban on horsemeat, it is in application of Acts 15:20.

Q II

Is the Pope the head of Vatican City and the Holy See?
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Pope-the-head-of-Vatican-City-and-the-Holy-See/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Thu

Yes, of both.

Note, if the true pope were to be someone else than the one residing in the Vatican, the true pope would be the head of the Holy See, per definition, but the Vatican City and the fake pope's fake Holy See would be run by the fake pope residing.

Q III

What words rhyme with ending words in -ed?
https://www.quora.com/What-words-rhyme-with-ending-words-in-ed/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

amateur linguist

Answered Thu

Other words which both end in -ed and have the same full stressed syllable, perhaps one in between, as the word in -ed you chose.

I'm supposing you meant -ed as unstressed final, like in w-alk-ed and t-alk-ed (rhyming) or m-anag-ed with (if it exists) pl-anag-ed.

If you meant words like Ted, Fred and words that would rhyme with those, that's another issue.

Q IV

What were the chances of a letter reaching its destination in medieval Europe?
https://www.quora.com/What-were-the-chances-of-a-letter-reaching-its-destination-in-medieval-Europe/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Thu

Depended on whether your courier was waylaid or not.

Read the novel Michael Strogoff by Jules Verne, and you will see what the procedure was like when enemies wanted to intercept ...

Q V

What became of the Huguenots?
https://www.quora.com/What-became-of-the-Huguenots/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Answer requested by

Neil Kuchinsky

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Fri

Some converted, some died in resistance or on galleys after trying it, very many fled to Belfast or Berlin.

Jacques Tredoux

Fri

Also, many ended up at the Cape of Good Hope after fleeing to The Netherlands, courtesy of the Dutch East India Company.

Many settled around Cape Town, especially in Stellenbosch, and established the South African wine industry.

They were assimilated into the Afrikaans-speaking population, contributing a number of French loan-words to the language.

Surnames such as Barnard, Lagrange, Malherbe, Du Toit, Retief, Nortier, Malan, Le Roux, Fouché, Fourie, De Villiers, Roux and De La Rey are still prominent in South Africa.

Q VI

How widespread was Latin spoken in the Roman Empire?
https://www.quora.com/How-widespread-was-Latin-spoken-in-the-Roman-Empire/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Answer requested by

Mike Austin

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered Fri

It was spoken all over the Western half, while Eastern half similarily had Greek, with some enclaves of it in the Western half as well (Marseilles and Rome had many Greek speakers and so had South Italy).

1st C BC and 1st C AD assisted a mass extinction of languages within Roman Empire which were neither Greek nor Latin, arguably their speakers shifted to Latin in for instance Italy or Gaul and to Greek in for instance Asia Minor. Most of the languages heard on Pentecost day were not written and did not survive to its centennial anniversary.

Q VII

What countries do not use the Gregorian calendar?
https://www.quora.com/What-countries-do-not-use-the-Gregorian-calendar/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

I suppose that countries with Islamic calendar use Gregorian as a parallel calendar, but Russia and Serbia use only Julian.

This means, basically same concept, but all years divisible by four, including all centurial years, are leap years and no ten days were retroactively scrapped either. The difference for since second "half" of 1900 up to first "half" of 2100 is thirteen days currently.

Possibly more countries, like Ukraine.

Bob Becksted

15h ago

To my knowlege, Russia and Serbia use the Western European Calendar (Gregorian) as the civil calendar. The Russian and Serbian Orthodox Churches use the Julian calendar, as do all the Eastern Churches.

Very few countries do not use the Gregorian calendar for at least business purposes.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Original Author

32m ago

Are you sure?

OK? You may be right .... that would be since Communism if so?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Original Author

Just now

And, for Serbia since it became part of the Kraljevina, obviously (SHS)

Q VIII

Which Greek tribe was Sparta a part of?
https://www.quora.com/Which-Greek-tribe-was-Sparta-a-part-of/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

(Two other answers were given before mine)

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

I am seconding Dorians.

As for the Hebrew tribe of Dan it is a guess where it actually went.

Q IX

What did a farmer do in medieval times?
https://www.quora.com/What-did-a-farmer-do-in-medieval-times/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

In December he slaughtered Makhlouf* and in January he sat by a fire.

There are, actually, pictures of the farm activities, month by month, so one can get a fairly good overview.

They were cited in a book about the French Countryside of the Middle Ages that I was reading the other day. In another library than this one.

I saw one other answer stating this:

"They had to grow food not only for themselves but first, and foremost, for whoever was taxing them (usually the local lord, but sometimes also the local bishop or monastery)."

First of all, a bishop or a monastery's abbot was a lord.

Second, more importantly, since farmers were 95 to 98 % of the ones living back then (according to current estimates), if not 95 to 98 % at least 90 to 96% was for themselves.

It's ridiculous to imagine that a lord could eat much more than twice than each of his farmers, since his farmers actually ate fairly much. He (and burghers) arguably did eat much more meat, though. Not much more bread.

It's totally ahistoric to imagine a lord exporting wheat to a far off city while his farmers were starving. Middle Ages was not 1846 of Ireland, for instance, in the Middle Ages, both farmers and their lord were usually Catholics and in the Middle Ages capitalism was less developed.

* Yes, this is one of the answers to Mr. Siddiquee.

Q X

What is a dome structure?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-dome-structure/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

I would have answered sth along the lines of a half sphere, but Gary Wheeler reminded me, you could also have 5/8 (the top ones) of a sphere, and that would also be a dome.

It's constructed a bit like a vault, except for one detail : in a vault, you need to keep a support until all of the vault is ready, in a dome, each tier of stones supports the one higher up (this also means, you can have domes with a hole in the top).

Q XI

What is the Greek word for belief?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Greek-word-for-belief/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

Pistis, but it first means the virtue of faith, sticking to your engagement of being faithful.

Doxa or dogma when it comes to belief about one point.

Both have other than religious meanings to, like contractual fidelity for the first, as well as reliance on someone else's such, and like opinion for the other.

// You were redirected because the question What are the Greek beliefs? was merged with this question. //

The Greeks had more than one belief system.

Pythagoreans practised a kind of Feng Shui and believed in Reincarnation.

Homeric belief is a bit like Japanese Shintoism.

Platonic belief is a bit closer to Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Aristotle modifies it, and if you go strictly with Aristotle you get something like Averroism.

Stoicism is a bit like Buddhism, Hinduism and Enlightenment.

Epicureanism is a bit like Materialistic Atheism and Enlightenment.

THEN came Christianity.

I have omitted exotic cults, like Isis worship or Orphicism (Egyptian and Thracian rather than Greek).

Q XII

What happened to Paris of Troy?
https://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-Paris-of-Troy/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

I would have looked it up, but Bottoni answered.

English uses more Latin like forms for two key words, namely Scaean Gates and Philoctetes, nymph and Heno.

Q XIII

What did Marcus Aurelius believe in?
https://www.quora.com/What-did-Marcus-Aurelius-believe-in/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

Ignore the answer by Eugene Kumarapperumena, please!

He was a Stoic and believed all is one. "God" and universe is one and doing the right thing brings you closer to the "God" you are.

This did not stop him from persecuting Christians, though.

Q XIV

Why do the numbers for years go down when dated B.C and then A.D. the numbers for years go up?
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-numbers-for-years-go-down-when-dated-B-C-and-then-A-D-the-numbers-for-years-go-up/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Answer requested by

Donna Rayne

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 22h ago

BC dates were invented for reference after AD dates.

People back in BC times had other and very various dating systems.

Q XV

What is the use of modern technology?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-use-of-modern-technology/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 19h ago

That depends on which one.

Transport, labour saving, recorded sound, communication, these serve different purposes, and medicine is another one.

And so are new materials in clothes and equipment.

And services provided centrally (water, electricity, sanitation). This, with transports and labour saving would be the ones I have reservations about, since the two former put people out of business and the latter makes people dependent on big companies.

Q XVI

Why doesn't the Bible mention David's mother?
https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-the-Bible-mention-Davids-mother/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 19h ago

It does:

http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=9&ch=22&l=3#x

Q XVII

Did the Spanish Inquisition ever pardon its victims?
https://www.quora.com/Did-the-Spanish-Inquisition-ever-pardon-its-victims/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 19h ago

You could be either acquitted or pardoned at a much higher rate than burnt.

St. Ignatius of Loyola was suspect of being an Alumbrado (loosely speaking : a near Catholic Quaker or Catholic Culture Quaker) but was acquitted when he agreed to study theology (he also became a priest and founder of the Jesuit order) before next time giving advice distinguishing venial from mortal sin.

To get pardoned, it was sufficient to repent of, for instance imagined compacts with the Devil, or abusing a holy word and agree to do the penance (a popular one was the road to Santiago - both with Inquisitors imposing the penance and with penitents doing it).

In the case of blasphemy or profanation, many calculated on doing the penance of going to Santiago in order to get a hearing from Inquisitors who were fairer than secular courts, if they had a problem, for instance with a landlord.

Q XVIII

What is a medieval shoemaker?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-medieval-shoemaker/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 17h ago

I think "shoemaker" is a good translation for "cobbler".

Q XIX

How reliably can we know how people in the Middle Ages actually spoke?
https://www.quora.com/How-reliably-can-we-know-how-people-in-the-Middle-Ages-actually-spoke/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 17h ago

We can very reliably know how they wrote.

Medieval manuscripts are a thing.

English is a language where spelling these days does not give too many clues (apart from special lessons!) on how you pronounce the words.

However, this is mainly because English has kept most of its spelling since times when it presumably was as phonetic as Finnish or Serbian orthography these days.

This is the case for French too.

German has reshaped its spelling considerably, probably in tandem with or some delay after sound changes.

So, through reliably knowing how they wrote, we can fairly reliably know how High / Classic and Late Middle Ages spoke.

Back when budding Romance languages were approximately spelled as Latin, we are somewhat less sure, except that St. Gregory of Tours was arguably not using the Classic pronunciation, nor the one introduced in 800 in Tours by Blessed Alcuin. He was using a Latin spelling from centuries earlier to denote words he pronounced centuries later, a bit like English is doing today.

Q XX

Do you know what inspired Tomas de Torquemada to instigate the Spanish Inquisition?
https://www.quora.com/Do-you-know-what-inspired-Tomas-de-Torquemada-to-instigate-the-Spanish-Inquisition/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

[not linking yet:] https://www.sfarad.es/quien-fue-arcediano-de-ecija-y-cual-fue-su-papel-contra-los-judios/

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 16h ago

One possibility was, protecting Conversos from lynchmobs deciding without evidence they were dangerous crypto-Jews : his uncle, cardinal Turrecremata (Torquemada in Spanish, but the cardinal is cited in Italian because he was part time stationed in Rome) had stopped on such lynchmob.

As their not too far off origins were also Conversos, they would have had an interest in exonerating Conversos who were not Judaising, but were bona fide Catholics.

After seeing the link:

Obviously the Torquemadas were a far cry from Ferrán Martinez, if he is correctly described (which I cannot guarantee in advance).

[IN fact, I haven't read all of it, I just skimmed on top.]

Q XXI

Before the advent of the Anno Domini dating system, how did Romans assign years to events that took place before the founding of Rome?
https://www.quora.com/Before-the-advent-of-the-Anno-Domini-dating-system-how-did-Romans-assign-years-to-events-that-took-place-before-the-founding-of-Rome/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl-1

Hans-Georg Lundahl

none/ apprx Masters Latin & Greek, Lund University

Answered 1h ago

Before the Founding of Rome, Olympiads and before that you have the Fall of Troy.

Before the Fall of Troy ... well, that would be difficult for Pagans, but the first centuries of official Christianity were not yet using the AD system, so, I think the Roman Martyrology for Christmas day would clear up a few things.

One thing is sure, they were not systematically using minus years for anything.

Here is my translation from the Latin of the earliest version from 1490's:

Year from Creation of the World, when in the beginning God created Heaven and Earth, five thousand, one hundred and ninety-nine, which number of years was completed in the following year of March, in the 20th day of same month, for in that day the world was created. But from the Deluge, the two thousand nine hundred fifty seventh year, which number was completed seventeenth day of following April. From birth of Abraham, the two thousand fifteenth year. From Moses & the Exodus of the people of Israel from Egypt, the thousand five hundred tenth year. From the ruin of Troy, the thousand hundred seventy-ninth year. From the anointing of David unto king, the thousand thirty-second year. In the hundred ninenty third Olimpiad, and in the eight hundredth year from the first Olimpiad. From the founding of the city of Rome, the seven hundredth fifty second year. The sixty-third week, accorting to the prophecy of Daniel, that is the four hundred fortieth year or thereabout. Year of the rule of Octavian, the forty-second. Sixth age of the world, gates closed, all world composed in peace, Christ Jesus eternal God, and Son of the eternal Father, wanting by his most tender advent consecrate the world, conceived by the Holy Ghost and nine months gone through after conception (here it is said in high voice) is born in Bethlehem of Judah from the Virgin Mary, made man; (here higher voice and in passion tone:) Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh.

Here is where I discuss where it comes from (and also give the Latin official original):

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Background to Christmas Martyrology
http://filolohika.blogspot.com/2019/02/background-to-christmas-martyrology.html