Friday, November 21, 2014

Debate against a Blasphemous Bengali Hegelian : Part two, His evil ideology of Progress

1) Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : ... Debate against a Blasphemous Hegelian Bengali. Part one, Education of Jesus Christ. And education in general, 2) Debate against a Blasphemous Bengali Hegelian : Part two, His evil ideology of Progress, 3) ... with the Bengali and "deadlock", on Jesus and on Apocryphon called Gospel of Thomas, 4) HGL's F.B. writings : Debates on "Gospel of Barnabas" and Fifth Sourate, at the end with a Muslim, 5) Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Remember the Buddhist Aussie?

Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl

Christian education did not appear suddenly from nothing, it came from what came before, which came from what came before, and so on.

However, it is my understanding that Christian system of the state and the church can have an unusual hold on the minds of the subjects, that hearing of divine sounds, and the like, are to be found in abundance, and the system keeps a lots of secrets believed by the subjects without question. White man's renewed effort for democracy and human rights, has justifications.Almost all serial killers (who claim to hear divine sound) are whites and Christians (no offense meant).

Your effort to establish human rights or freedom of thought, although praiseworthy, is by no means over.

I am not an atheist, but believe in evolution from some unknown universal program, that propels evolution everywhere, and that the process is dynamical and not static.

If I may call this universal program, the designer/creator or God, then I think he wanted us to possess the gift of free thought. He also gave the knowledge of mathematics to Meno's slave-!!!

Hans-Georg Lundahl
God gave the knowledge of Mathematics to Meno's slave.

God did not give an exact familiarity with Himself to all men after Adam's sin.

Nor did He intend the solution of how to get to know Him to coincide with the normal human ways of education.

Humanly speaking, a daughter is under her father in education. But God gave knowledge of Himself to more than one virgin, whose father remained Pagan.

Read the story of St Barbara. Her persecutor was her Pagan father.

"However, it is my understanding that Christian system of the state and the church can have an unusual hold on the minds of the subjects, that hearing of divine sounds, and the like, are to be found in abundance, and the system keeps a lots of secrets believed by the subjects without question."

You confuse a lot of different things.

By "hearing of divine sounds", I suppose you mean what Atheistic shrinks call "hearing voices". Actually, you are wrong to suppose most serial killers have that "symptom" and you are wrong to suppose most of them are Christians in the sense of accepting the Christian dogma.

Klebold may have been baptised - I am not sure - but he accepted evolutionist doctrine.

[I was confusing "spree killing" with serial killing - among those there is already one doctor and at least three of Catholic background who were unlikely to be practising Catholics, as I go by wikipedia. Secularism is rampant there too.]

For the Christian dogma having "a strong hold" and even unusually so on believers, has nothing whatsoever to do with "hearing voices". Christianity is a rational conviction.

The State can help the Church or mar the Church - but the dogmata belong to the Church, not to the State. The Anglican community (Church of England) is an aberration.

Miracles rather than hearing voices audibly is the rational basis for Christian belief.

[Sometimes hearing voices audibly on part of one person is involved in a miracle, but if so there is another person verifying the miraculosity of knowledge given by such voices.]

As we are talking about Krishna on this video, he never did anything to clearly show he was God, but Christ did. Krishnas body was burnt to ashes and thrown into the Ganghes (I think), both items may be anachronisms, because I do not believe that custom existed or even that Ganghes existed in the world before the Flood. And just before the Flood is when Kali yuga is supposed to begin, or in other words Krishna is supposed to have died.

But it is certain he did not appear risen from the dead, it is certain he was not bodily raised up into the clouds before eleven witnesses before disappearing.

The basis for Christianity is visible miracles, witnessed by many, not hallucinations experienced by one at a time.

[Whether the hallucinations be pathological or demonic, which are two different things.]

Now, as to the meaning you gave of evolutionary continuum, it contradicts your earlier observation on "education does not come in different packages". Even on your own principles you could have concluded that Christian education was different from Hindoo education, because, as you would say, "they had developed differently".

You also contradict yourself between God wanting us to have "free thought" and trying to rebuke someone expressing his free thought (free from your control at least) as someone "sounding uneducated".

Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl God gave us Bodhiswatta so we can embrace values like nonviolence,human right, freedom,free thought etc., much like he gave knowledge of mathematics to Meno's slave. Do not remain the slave, but embrace Bodhiswatta. Do not disobey him, only you will fool yourself.
Hans-Georg Lundahl
What you propose is neither freedom nor even free thought.

Non-violence totally is not even a value that Christ embraced. Non-violence in peace time to preserve peace, he did more than anyone or at least than most. Certainly more than Gandhi.

[If He had a right to stone businessmen desecrating the Temple for sacrilege and blasphemy, and only took a rope t whip them, that is definitely non-violence in peace times to preserve peace. For instance.]

I do not know what you mean by "human rights" but if you mean the list in the United Nations Declaration or lists like those in Republic of India, you are fooling yourself.

Aborting female feti (or any feti) because one does not want girls (or boys, or children at that time of life, or children at all or for any other reason) is not a human right and it is still indirectly nearly painted out as one by those erroneous non-Christian lists.

Freedom did not come by Boddhisattwas like it did in the Christendom of the West during the Middle Ages, through Christ and His Church.

Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl

Do you honestly feel free of the state/church controlling your thoughts. See what they have turned you into,so that you still do not know what human rights means.SAD.

Come let us together finish Buddha's mission, namely "free the oppressed white Christians".

[Earlier he admitted not being quite a Buddhist ... now he's speaking with confidence about "Buddha's mission" ...]

Dan Marino
+Naimul Haq

Correct! Ultimately their purpose are the same. Unfortunately some fail to see this.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
+Naimul Haq , I know what human rights mean much better than UN, and thanks to the Church. However not thanks to the state.

The states in Europe have persecuted the Catholic Church for centuries, some shorter time, just recently, some longer time, for centuries. Pretending the "state" is controlling my thoughts when I am Catholic is ridiculous.

Pretending I don't know what human rights are, when you show you don't know it yourself is sad.

Buddha was not someone who freed the oppressed, he was someone who seduced to one falsehood people who being already seduced by other falsehoods saw no opportunity to defend themselves from his falsehoods. Which were partly the same (dharma, reincarnation, abnegation or detachment as such as essence of moral perfection).

Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl

You do not understand the spirit with which we evolve.What is worse, is your lame attempt to discredit what had been established around the civilized world (by the way, you can call yourself civilized only if your system allows you free choice), which is not coming soon for you.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
The Catholic system very much does allow me free choice in very many matters.

As to "the spirit with which we evolve", it is called Satan.

Abortion may have been established around the world these days (not quite true, Ireland and Malta have resisted, though Ireland was recently weakened, alas), but that means the world is so much less civilised, so much closer to the Barbarism in the Civilisation that needed Christianity to become truly civilised, namely Rome.

Constantine outlawed abortion, and so much the better for him.

You belong to a people some of whom adore "sacred monkeys" and these practise infanticide, and so your twisted idea of the holy gives you a twisted idea of morality.

[Unless he wants to argue Bengalis are totally different from the guys speaking Hindi and being Hindoos ...]

Here are the sacred monkeys I mean:

English Wikipedia : Northern Plains Gray Langur

(I had trouble refinding what I had in French read as "entelle")

And even those refrain from infanticide on Himalaya.

Of course, they may have picked this atrocious habit up by imitating evil men ... in the country where they live. India.

Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl Like I said, you do not know how to prove your point, although you seem quite desperate to do so.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
You did not know how to prove your point earlier on.

You said Jesus was disciple of a Boddhisattwa or of a Buddhist monk teachning Boddhisattwa mindset.

I asked you where in the Gospel you had read that.

The modern scholars who pretend so are not in the Gospel. The ancient Buddhist manuscripts are not in the Gospel.

St Joseph teaching Our Lord how to do timberwork is between the lines of the Gospel and firmly in Christian tradition.

But an electric engineer might have a preference for considering God as a current or as a program rather than as Three Persons.

Three Persons in One God.

Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl

If you found any of Buddha's teaching in your gospel, it would be proof for you, yet when you hear Isa preach it, it makes no sense to you. You are headstrong and uneducated.Sorry.

[my emphasis]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
If I find items where Our Lord and Siddharta agree, and others where they disagree, it proves Gautama was partially right, partially wrong in essentials. Since no man is wrong on all essentials, "partially right and partially wrong" is the only practical definition of being wrong.
Naimul Haq
+Hans-Georg Lundahl
Siddharta Gautama IS OUR LORD.
He is not Lord of the Universe, nor Lord of Heaven, nor Lord of life.

If you make him your lord, you insult the true one, you rebel against the true one - whether you know it or not.

Some of you may be in the position of some innocent yokel taking part in a rebellion he considered a real government or a real just insurrection to restore just government - and when the true ruler comes to judge, he may be lenient on it.

But it is hardly the case for all and everyone, and even such who are idolaters without being guilty for that, may be damned because of the other sins that were obvious even to them and they were guilty of.

Did the sisters at Holy Cross school never tell you that?

Sourabh Bhattacharya
Lord Buddha himself was the 9th Avatar of Lord Vishnu just after Krishna. There are a lot of similarities between Buddhism and Vaishnavism, sect based on Lord Krishna 8th avatar of Lord Vishnu. Proof of Lord Buddha as 9th Avatar of Vishnu is inscribed in the Jagannath Temple in Puri,Odisha. Jagannath temple is among the 4 holiest temples for Vaishnavaites. There are also proofs that Jesus spent his time during the period 12-32 yrs in India. He first came to Puri to learn the Shastras. Proof of its is in 2500 years olf library of Shankarachariya based at Puri. From Puri Jesus went to Tibet and learnt Buddhism. Lastly he went to Kashmir. For us the Hindus we rever Lord Buddha just like Lord Krishna after all he is the 9th avatar of Lord Vishnu.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Now, Juggernaut (which I suppose is what in Hindi transcription is spelled Jagannath), has a very bad sound to English speakers of the West. We are not willing to take inscriptions on the Jagannath Temple as proof for Vishnu or of his supposed Avatars.

Krishna and Siddharta lived. Neither was a god, neither an "Avatar of Vishnu", nor one of the other. Both were men.

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