Friday, November 30, 2018

On Victims of Abuse by Clergy Not Quite Catholic

Young Catholics' Perspective on The Catholic Church Scandal. Ft. The Crunch
New Catholic Generation | 29.XI.2018

As to "il piccolo italiano" I responded to nothing he said, because it was perfect and needed no response.

6:34 Doing maths at "over the last 50, 60 or so years"


Would I be right in nearly all being post 1958 and all post 1950?

Those happen to be significant dates. 1958, death of Pius XII and you get what nearly all Sedevacantists consider as Antipopes publically shown as Popes.

1950, the year in which he issed Humani Generis, making a "Honorius" move about the heresy of Adam bodily descending from other living organisms. (You know, like Honorius refused to condemn Monotheletism).

16:29 St Giovanni Bosco and Domenico Savio were close.

I am not saying in a sexual way, one of them is canonised by Pope Pius XI (even if it was on April 1) but like "the dynamic duo" of Catholic pastoral back then in Turin area (I think they were in Torino).

Supposing everyone back then had been on the outlook for "special focus" and "some kind of disordered relation" ... could their friendship have existed? I presume that canonisation is valid.

Are you sure the kind of measures that the classes are promoting are not part of what the devil has planned through this destructive work?

Also, when everyone is on the outlook for something, sometimes innocent people are accused of that something. In France or Belgium, two priests (or Vatican II clergy, their ordinations are presumably not valid) have committed suicide over being, presumably falsely accused.

Btw, considering how many Anticatholic people who are presumably reading me, I expect some will try to pour smut on Domenico Savio - but I still think it needs to be written. Shrinks are NOT our experts in moral theology and also NOT our experts even on how to protect the innocent against this, that or sundry person who would be the real guilty one.

As you mentioned it being a "no no" for an adult and a child (unrelated as parent or uncle, I presume you mean) to spend time together alone, while I was abused by school mates in another way - harrassment, but really severe - a man whom I later came to distrust on other issues actually did comfort me while he was driving me in a car. He can have contributed to saving me from getting too depressed. He did cheer me up. If I hadn't back then been responsive to adults cheering me up (even if it was a childish trait and arguably has harmed me socially later), school with those other guys would perhaps have killed me, and "perhaps" is perhaps not the right word.

Patrick Neve
Are you suggesting if we see a man spending inordinate amounts of alone time with a young boy.....we should assume he's the next St. John Bosco?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

But St. John Bosco arguably was spending lots of time with him.

And arguably it couldn't have happened in the climate of hysteria this crisis is promoting.

One hint about abuse NOT being the case would at least be "do they have a legitimate common interest" (in St John Bosco's and Domenico Savio's case : saving souls and sanctifying themselves).

And "inordinate amounts of time" cannot simply be determined from the amount of time. Could a common interest require it?

18:46 "so that victimization of children doesn't happen again"

You are aware school and harrassment is a more numerous victimization in numbers of victims than sexual predators, aren't you?

Are you standing up against school compulsion?

Some of its victims include suicides who killed others first.

And that means Cassie Bernall along with Klebold.

Tatiana Federoff
Uh yes. All violence is against the fifth commandment and is an evil to be fought against. I'm homeschooled, Hans, so of course I don't like school compulsion. But this video is for the specific abuses of the Catholic Church and how we can be sure that children and vulnerable adults aren't abused in the Church, not about school safety.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
after liking previous comm.
I am glad at least one of you steps up for homeschooling.

Some don't.

I was specifically thinking of one recently "canonised" man who in "Gaudium et Spes" considered teachers as representatives of mankind / humanity to their pupils ....

Tatiana Federoff
@Hans-Georg Lundahl I mean, they should be. Schools are great... when they are good.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Teachers should be the complements of parents on the parent's terms.

Not elevated to "representatives of humanity".

School safety 101 : don't make it compulsory.

19:20 "someone more professional than me needs to step in"

Horror of horrors.

An already abused person confided to the potential abuse of "mental health professionals"!

Is that what they teach you?

20:25 "that counsellor can work through with them until they are ready to ... report it to authorities"

Can stories be deformed during such a process of counselling?

In the Kavanaugh hearing, someone said she had papers from after some time of counselling stating she had already back then, way before Kavanaugh was nominated for Supreme Court, stated he had made a bad move.

Well, guess what his lawyers asked her to do? Provide the papers from earlier on in the counselling.

Stories and memories get deformed during such processes.

Other case, someone who had spent time in mental hospital for murder with cannibalism made a confession with details and was ... acquitted. Why? Because the details weren't accurate. What had happened? Well, during the counselling process ... he had confessed to things that didn't happen.

One theory (the official one) : he was attention seeking and the counsellors didn't get that. Confessing to a gory murder with cannibalism gave him a sense of power.

Other theory (my own unprofessional suspicion) : counselling actually warped his memories.

So, in the recipe you forward, you could be promoting injustice.

Patrick Neve
All I'm saying is I'm not qualified to help someone cope with having been abused.

This comment
was before two of mine already above:

Hans-Georg Lundahl
20:25 "that counsellor can work ..." etc....

Hans-Georg Lundahl
So, in the recipe you forward, you could be promoting injustice.

Patrick Neve
@Hans-Georg Lundahl im not quite sure what you are trying to say

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Check your actual words.

Click the time signature 19:20 or for context 19:10 ...

Hans-Georg Lundahl
"im not quite sure what you are trying to say"

In case police are to be involved, it should best not be after counselling has had time to deform memories.

I was actually continuing my previous comment and not responding to yours which is only one minute older than mine and I didn't see you had answered first.

"All I'm saying is" This is where I ask you to check your words at 19:15 or 19:20

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