Chuck MIssler on the Demonic, some Complementary or Corrective Comments by me

Answering Rob Skiba on Tower and Other Issues · Chuck MIssler on the Demonic, some Complementary or Corrective Comments by me · On Not Demonising Internet · Matthew 24 and Genesis 6

Demonism - Chuck Missler
16.IV.2013 | Koinonia House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgbiVTXRGF4

1:16 I grasped that "Greek mythology" was history, when I realised the oracle of Cumae and the oracle of Delphi were real demons.

They worshipped a "god" named Apollon, and one by-name of Apollon by the Greeks themselves is Apollyon. Another one is "fly-god" - basically Belzebub. In Iliad A, he not only ended the plague, but sent it, and sent it not just by way of judgement, but by sending arrows.

1:56 By the way, the roles of Poseidon and Aphridite in Hippolytus are arguably also demonic.

Theseus basically sacrificed his son to his demon step father.

Poseidon in oldest form is Potei Daon ... Lord Dagon, a demon known from Philistines and Canaanites in Holy Land.

In other words, the behaviour is not one I expect some fairy tale inventor to attribute to beings he considers (though erroneously) as holy, but one I consider demons are capable of.

4:01 Psychiatric patients often demonic?

Most possessed? No. Very many are misdiagnosed and actually sane.

6:48 The world was Satan's. He lost it on Calvary.

The victory of Christ is however something to be applied by the Church : hence exorcisms, blessings, Church bells, holy water, holy salt.

As well as the proper use of the sacraments.

Andrea Mobeck

The world still is Satan's until Jesus (Yeshua) returns.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

No, Jesus conquered it on Calvary.

Satan still lingers and will make a move for taking it back final 3 and a half years, but he is no longer on his own ground.

Sharon Hall

Church bells, holy water, and holy salt have nothing to do with it. It's all aboutTHE WORD!!!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Sharon Hall You are wrong, since in OT times, you could be cleansed by water sprinkled on you if it was mixed with ashes of the red heifer and since the blowing of the shofar also was a sacramental.

Since there is no more red heifer in the sense veterinarians use the word, Christ replacing the red heifer, nevertheless, there is water that can cleanse, and that means drive away demons.

If demons could be afraid of a shofar blowing from a temple that only symbolised Christ, they are afraid of bells ringing from a Church where this New Temple, this Third Temple is kept literally and bodily in the Tabernacle.

So, holy water, holy salt and Church bells, as well as the proper use of sacraments, do have an impact on residual demonic activity. No demonic activity being ordinary, all of it just residual, since Calvary.

Sharon Hall

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Jesus, himself, did not use all of those things to drive demons away or to heal people. He simply had the proper application of the word. Oh yeah, I forgot, used mud and spit to heal somebody's eyes. Now there's some holy water for you . He won his fight against Satan's Temptations, who also used the word of God, with the application of using the right words at the right time. I see no use of holy water in the New Testament outside of being totally immersed for baptism, (using any body of water available) washing feet to keep humble and serving others. I see no application of salt using. I don't remember any more ashes for grieving in the New Testament . I do seem to remember a scripture that says we are the temple, we are the light, we are the salt, and Jesus , God, the Holy Spirit, and the kingdom of God is IN us. I believe praise and worship to our Lord and God is to be our daily blowing of the shofar.

[reedited as]

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Jesus and the disciples did not cast out demons with holy water, salt, or blowing a shofar. And yet they did cast out demons after Jesus died and rose again and left. The scriptures I read only mention water for immersion baptism once, in foot washing to keep people humble and serving others. The New Testament says we are the temples and we should be holy, we are the light, we are the salt, and I believe that our blowing of the shofar is our praise and worship. Scripture also says that Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of God is IN us. We fight demonic attacks and cast out demons with the proper application of the RIGHT words at the right time. That's the way that Jesus Juan his Temptations against Satan's attack, who by the way also would using the word of God out of context. God is responding to our faith not all these actions that you are proposing. you seem to be stuck in the Old Testament. The Jews who are going to have the Third Temple, I'm not yet believing in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@Sharon Hall "Jesus and the disciples did not cast out demons with holy water, salt, or blowing a shofar."

Exorcisms of the possessed people are another sacramental if not sacrament of the Catholic Church. Disciples not using holy water seems to be "Bible alone" reasoning, like "if we don't read it in the Bible". It certainly itself cannot be proven from the Bible that they didn't.

"And yet they did cast out demons after Jesus died and rose again and left."

So does the Catholic Church to this day. Have you heard of Fr. Gabriele Amorth?

"The scriptures I read only mention water for immersion baptism once, in foot washing to keep people humble and serving others."

Well the foot washing (practised on twelve poor parishioners each Maundy Thursday in Catholic Church) is different from baptism and therefore a sacramental, not a sacrament.

Baptism is never described as "immersion baptism only".

"The New Testament says we are the temples and we should be holy, we are the light, we are the salt, and I believe that our blowing of the shofar is our praise and worship."

While in NT symbolic meanings take precedence over kashrut and sacramentals of the OT, they do not forbid NT sacramentals and symbols.

"Scripture also says that Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of God is IN us."

Well, having God in your soul doesn't exclude having a parish around your body.

Hence, it does not exclude external signs of worship, of blessing or of exorcism.

"We fight demonic attacks and cast out demons with the proper application of the RIGHT words at the right time."

And, for formal exorcisms of possessed persons, usually at least by the right people - Catholic exorcists.

"That's the way that Jesus Juan his Temptations against Satan's attack, who by the way also would using the word of God out of context."

Problems with autocorrect?

In Satan's case, there were other misuses than "out of context". Like ignoring the general scheme of things. This is also the case with those missing Christ founded a Church which is still here, not restored, but never vanished.

"God is responding to our faith not all these actions that you are proposing."

What if the actions are done with faith?

"you seem to be stuck in the Old Testament."

Funny, since every Jew who considers me as impure for using Catholic rites instead of their kashrut would be claiming I was cut off from the OT.

"The Jews who are going to have the Third Temple, I'm not yet believing in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior."

Problems with autocorrect?

Jews are not going to have a Third Temple, Jesus is the Third Temple. The one He tore down and rebuilt in three days.

I do believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, and I do believe in Him as founder of a visible Church which He assigned so as to prevent me and others from inadvertent rebellion and to provide the sacraments for salvation.

[added]

@Sharon Hall "Oh yeah, I forgot, used mud and spit to heal somebody's eyes. Now there's some holy water for you ."

Well, the full healing would also have involved the use of the water blessed by an angel at a certain well, wouldn't it?

Christ told the man to use it, when He had answered he saw men but they looked like trees.

Yes, there is some holy water there.

Spit of the priest is used in immediate preparations of child baptism. Or even adult baptism.

7:25 When St Paul warns St. Timothy of false doctrines as demonic, he does not call these "non-Biblical".

Nor does he leave room for doubts of it being Puritan of a Vegan or Vegetarian type and Malthusian or Eugenic as in forbidding marriage (could also be a question of Feminism of the more rabid type).

11:09 "before our time" they said ... that being Calvary.

Christ was going to take dominion away from them and they knew it.

Andrea Mobeck

The demons were speaking of the time of Judgement. They are still here doing their work.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

They are still doing their work, but no longer as rulers by conquest, as between Adam's sin and Christ's obedience.

In the time of Theseus (a generation presumably before the fall of Troy which was when or before Eli judged Israel) a demon could appear to a man and claim to be his father, and send horses to tear that man's son apart under their hooves. Theseus thought Poseidon was his father. Hippolytus died of horses trampling him down, when Theseus in jealousy had spoken to his "father".

In the time when Roman Empire was persecuting Christians, a Ceres priest could summon up a kind of dragon, but a Christian bishop sufficed to chase him into a stream and into turning into stone.

Since then, Church bells, Holy Water, Sacraments, Christian lives have chased Satan and his minions further and further away from having the kind of power they had. However, as Catholic societies disintegrate (Reformation, Enlightenment, post-Russian Revolution times), the demons are getting less and less confronted with the exorcistic powers of the Church

14:05 Not eligible for resurrection, Isaiah 26:14 ... hmm ... the Beavers said Jadis was not truly human "but a giantess" ... C. S. Lewis probably could have a point.

Let not the dead live, let not the giants rise again: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and hast destroyed all their memory.

Douay Rheims.