Sunday, October 1, 2023

Dr. Eleanor Janega is Somewhat Sloppy with Historic Fact


How so? Here:
a) she generalises particularly English (or English with Bohemian) conditions
b) she denies things happened, which actually happened, though rarely.


How Much Power Did the Catholic Church Have in the Middle Ages?
History Hit, 22 Sept 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsfmKOkw5mU


0:15 You are aware that male life spans taken by dynasty for royalty tend to have 56 years as median, but by position (for non-royal and non-dynastic ones, obviously) tends to have 65 as median?

9:14 Was just checking lifespans of cardinals of San Giorgio in Velabro - one of them was archdeacon (not archbishop) in Canterbury.

"[Prospero] Colonna was also the Archdeacon of Canterbury from June 1424 to December 1434, appointed by Martin V, his uncle.[1][2] Colonna claimed several ecclesiastical revenue streams in England, including the prebend of Laughton, York, worth an estimated £33 per annum, a matter of dispute between Colonna and Thomas Chapman, as well as Chapman's successor John Lax.[3] Colonna acquired other English benefices at a time when the right of the pope to appoint English bishops was a matter of controversy.[4]"


Imagine an Italian archdeacon in an English cathedral after 17 November 1558!

9:30 King? Viceroy on earth.

God is the King of the Church.

10:00 Adrian VI (with whom Henry VIII was still in communion) was not a peasant, but he was a burgher of Utrecht, not a nobleman ...

"[Jacques] Pantaléon was the son of a cobbler of Troyes, France.[1]"


a k a Urban IV.

Philipp Schaff is certainly not trying to flatter Catholicism for its egalitarian qualities, but he gives another example of a cobbler's son:

"§ 7. The Pontificate of John XXII 1316–1334.

"Clement died April 20, 1314. The cardinals met at Carpentras and then at Lyons, and after an interregnum of twenty seven months elected John XXII., 1316–1334, to the papal throne. He was then seventy-two, and cardinal-bishop of Porto.118 Dante had written to the conclave begging that it elect an Italian pope, but the French influence was irresistible.

"Said to be the son of a cobbler of Cahors, short of stature,119 with a squeaking voice, industrious and pedantic, John was, upon the whole, the most conspicuous figure among the popes of the fourteenth century, though not the most able or worthy one."


What Schaff is saying is "as John XXII was a commoner, he was a social misfit" - but that didn't stop him from becoming Pope.

12:49 "parish priests tend to see this as"

the following is very true for England and partly explains the Reformation

"intercepting what would rightly go to the local church"

but it is not necessarily true for all other countries. I don't know the situation in Bohemia all that well, but I don't think you find this kind of tension in for instance Vienna or Paris.

13:37 "services entirely in Latin"

Technically true, but technically also the sermon is not part of the actual Mass liturgy. Meaning it could very easily not be in Latin. Latin sermons would probably be prevailing in Masses held for university students, who were anyway required to already master Latin.

"and the priest would be facing the altar most of the time"

Not when blessing the people, not when reading the Gospel, not when preaching the sermon, and also not when distributing Holy Communion. But they certainly did - and do - face the altar during the canon of the Mass.

The Latin mass is not dead.

19:25 Hear, hear, Wycliff was a disciple of Judas Ischariot.

Matthew 26:9

While Matthew doesn't say so, the other gospels mention the guy putting the disciples up to this was Judas ...

19:39 In Sweden the communal tax typically is c. 30 %.

The tithe, precisely as the name suggests, is 10 %.

AND, please note, lots of things now done by the local secular governments, in Sweden met by communal tax, would back then have been financed by the tithe, like schools, hospitals for the poor, and almsgiving outside hospitals too ...

Wyclif was complaining about the Church being involved in the social life. He was catering to rich burghers who thought they could make almsgiving in much more rational ways, i e more oppressive to the one's receiving them.

20:09 Wyclif was complaining that:
  • as mendicants were honoured while begging (by the way, not just technically, but actually asking for money, note, Franciscans couldn't, Dominicans and Carmelites could, and not just necessities, in the streets),
  • they encouraged involuntarily poor people to also beg without being too shamefaced.


That's the kind of crime Wyclif was complaining about, and possibly also marrying couples against their parents' wills.

Wyclif's best disciple in the 19th C, if fictional examples are allowed, would have been Dickens' Ebenezer Scrooge.

20:32 Wyclif felt ... yeah, right, check Jeremias 17:9!

The orders were obliged to individual poverty, not to collective destitutions. A Franciscan obliges himself with an "I" to be poor and live by begging and the resources the convent he is in has, no vow obliged any convent to be poor as in "we" ...

Probably he hated Franciscans owning books about as much as certain bourgeois intellectuals hate me accessing the internet and using wikipedia ...

22:30 "often the laity feel the clergy ... not be accumulating so much wealth on earth"

But they weren't doin so for their personal "train de vie", they were doing so to effectively serve the things of God.

The sentiment you speak of would (same reservation as previous about Bohemia) would be very absent from the laity over much of the Catholic world.

If you go to 1400 in Sweden or Austria (outside Bohemia) or France or Spain, would you find laymen complaining about clerical "riches"? I don't think so.

23:35 Bridgettines in Vadstena were even more like this* (St Bridget who founded the order was the widow of a Lagman - a lawspeaker - and the order got their first monastery from a king who donated one of the royal court buildings).

But for some reason, this didn't get under the skin of any people in Sweden.

Guess we had (back then) less of Judas Ischariot than England had ....

* Like the poor Clares in the convent set up by a countess.

26:00 "Nobility are able to counter the Church ..."

In many places, they got that ambition from reading Cicero. How Cicero saw or treated poor men was a question of Cicero's position, and he had no concerns about salvation getting in between that ...

Luther and Calvin catered to people who dreamed of the good old days, when lords were just lords and slaves were just slaves. A bit like some guys in Virginia in the 1880's or early 2000 might dream of the days before Ghettysburgh.

On liturgic splendour as "riches of the Church" confer:

Sell the Vatican, Feed the Poor?
Brian Holdsworth, 23 Sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUEtTEKdIm0

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