Trudging on in a Quagmired Video: Five More Minutes

First Forty Minutes where Scholastic Answers at least partly Misjudges the Case of Jake Brancatella · Ten More Minutes · Trudging on in a Quagmired Video: Five More Minutes

Same video as previous two.

50:09 He did not ask about the code of canon law, he asked about the canon law.

It was 14 / 12.

That was also the minimal age in Spain back in 1910. In civil law.

[previous was taken away before I posted next:]

50:55

SIIIG
The age of disposing the affairs of other in the [W]est was much higher than 12. Other people like Basil give ages of adulthood like 21.

Imagine a boy of 14 and a girl of 12 marry. By consummating the marriage, they are disposing the affairs of their own bodies.

Once a child reaches 7, the boy is by then at least a man of 21, so, he has reached the age of disposing of others, as by Aristotle, St. Thomas, and apparently also St. Basil.

As to "adulthood" in fact it is even today a thing that varies according to subject. In some states of the US, you can vote before you can drink alcohol outside the home and parental supervision.

[previous was taken away before I posted next:]

51:31 The Roman Empire had marital age legally at 14 / 12 since Caesar Augustus.

Among early Christians, according to a statistic I have mislaid the link for, c. 20 % of the women were married by 12. Basically none before 11. Among Pagan Romans this was not so, you have a gravestone in Vaison la Romaine for a wife who married at age 10 ... and didn't live too long after that.

In traditional Judaism (which is not inerrant, but which shares heritage with the Catholic truth), a girl between 12 + 1 day and 12 + 6 months + 1 day had a complex situation, but from 12 + 6 months + 1 day she could marry "on her own authority" (I think this means she's pronouncing the "I do" or what corresponds), and before 12 (this is erroneous of course) she could marry with the father signing the marriage contract for her.

In Nordic countries, it was more like 14 or beyond, but this is due to the fact that before electricity and imports from more southern countries, the light and vitamin levels were so low that puberty used to be delayed. Hence, St. Bridget marries at 13 (possible according to canon law) but her husband Ulf Gudmarsson waits till she's 14.

In the 19th C. in Nordic countries and UK, puberty was considered normal only from 15 or 16, given the climactic factor. Puberty blockers were not developed by the trans-agenda, but by doctors obeying this prejudice against "precocious" puberty, and delaying puberty to what they consider a more normal age.

The probable reason why the mother of St. Francis of Sales married as late as 14 was that Savoy nobility had some Burgundian heritage, and Burgundians come from Nordic countries, more precisely from Bornholm, short for "Burgundarholmr" and that's one of the islands of Denmark, East of Zealand, and the one major island of Denmark that's as far East as South Sweden.

When Deenresponds asks "So what was the age of adulthood for the early church?" he's presuming there is a uniform "age of adulthood" common to caring for affairs of others (like running a business) and marrying (which certainly doesn't count as "caring for affairs of others" before c. 8 years after marriage is consumed, not sure if being a parent ever counted as that).

52:44 "you're doing a massive taweel"

I checked Islamweb:

The term Ta'weel is used to denote different meanings, which Shaykh Ibn ʻUthaymeen may Allaah have mercy upon him explained, saying:

"Note: It is deduced that Ta'weel has three different meanings:

The first meaning is: Tafseer (explanation and elucidation), and this is the definition of the term according to the Tafseer scholars. This meaning is clear in the supplication of the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, for Ibn ʻAbbaas may Allaah be pleased with him: 'O Allaah! Grant him profound understanding of the religion and teach him the Ta'weel (Tafseer of the Quran).' This meaning is known by scholars in relation with the verses about the divine attributes of Allaah and others.

The second meaning is: the reality of how something will occur and its result. This meaning is deduced from the usage of the word Ta'weel in the Quran and Sunnah. For instance, Allaah, The Exalted, says (what means):

- {Do they await except its Ta'weel (result/fulfillment)?} [Quran 7:53]

- {That is good (advantageous) and better in Ta'weel (in the end).} [17:35]

Ta'weel of the verses about the divine attributes of Allaah, in this sense, means to be aware of the true reality of these attributes, and this knowledge is exclusively possessed by Allaah.

The third meaning is: figurative interpretation, that is changing the meaning of the words and interpreting them in a way that does not conform to their literal meaning. In other words, taking a word away from its apparent meaning. This definition is held by the late scholars of ʻIlm Al-Kalaam (Scholastic theology) and others. This type can be divided into two categories: praiseworthy and blameworthy. If there is a textual proof to support it, then it is praiseworthy. For instance, Allaah, The Exalted, says (what means): {So if you recited the Quran, seek refuge in Allaah from Satan, the expelled (from His mercy).} [Quran 16:98] The intended meaning of the verse is, 'When you wish to recite the Quran, (first) seek refuge with Allaah from Satan...' If there is no textual proof to support it, then it is blameworthy, such as interpretation of the Istiwaa' of Allaah over The Throne as to denote seizing and controlling, and His Hand as to denote His power and grace, and the like."

[previous two were taken away before I posted next:]

53:41 Deenresponds probably thought you could immediately see his chat comment "what was the age of adulthood in the early Church" ...

53:53 The Cappadocians and Emenius (of Edessa?) established an age of 16 ...

For what exact adulthood? Like now there are different adulthoods for learning to drive, being able to drink, being able to vote ... what exact age were the Cappadocians establishing as 16?

Marital age or another one?

Plus I have seen St. Basil's canons for monks abused by Kollyvites (look it up!) as some kind of canon law for laymen.

You are aware that a man who has killed in battle, even if justly and even when confessing, unless he is in the danger of dying without communion has to abstain for one week from Communion? Well, Kollyvites made this 3 years, based on a decision St. Basil made for monks

I would not be the least surprised if SIIIG* were referring to an age relevant for entry into the monastic life. This is not automatically the same age as minimal age for marriage.

If we check Supplementum Q 58 A 5:

Objection 2. Further, just as the tie of religion is perpetual so is the marriage tie. Now according to the new legislation (cap. Non Solum, De regular. et transeunt.) no one can be professed before the fourteenth year of age. Therefore neither could a person marry if defective age were an impediment.

Reply to Objection 2. The same answer applies, since the religious vow is about matters outside the inclination of nature, and which offer greater difficulty than marriage.

Now, this looks back to "ad primum" ..

Objection 1. It would seem that deficient age is not an impediment to marriage. For according to the laws children are under the care of a guardian until their twenty-fifth year. Therefore it would seem that before that age their reason is not sufficiently mature to give consent, and consequently that ought seemingly to be the age fixed for marrying. Yet marriage can be contracted before that age. Therefore lack of the appointed age is not an impediment to marriage.

Reply to Objection 1. In matters to which nature inclines there is not required such a development of reason in order to deliberate, as in other matters: and therefore it is possible after deliberation to consent to marriage before one is able to manage one's own affairs in other matters without a guardian.

And note, "in matters to which nature inclines" pretty definitely destroys your idiocy about 14 / 12 being only for matrimonia rata nondum consummata. Nature most definitely does NOT incline to waiting with the consummation, once puberty is reached.

* If it was he. Can't find the popup from the chat right now ...

55:20 1) You actually bumped into a debate involving Muslims, voluntarily.
2) Your knowledge of sacramentology is highly defective on this issue.

No, you don't Jake is wrong.

[My comments are taken down before next action, if it doesn't show because the screen is not rebooted, the taken down comment is one one cannot comment below]

Grgur Ivas

@CroElectroStile

based

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

Totally unbased, and on top of that, he keeps taking down new comments of mine after I had barely gone through even half of the video.

[All previous comments from today have been taken down by now]

Chris Knox

@Aspiring3033

@MilitantThomist your shoes are great & very enjoyable & very helpful particularly as I was welcomed into the Catholic faith as a former Protestant last Easter. So I know you love St Thomas & Pope St Pius the X & I was think when you said Pius didn’t want Catholics to read bible that would cause them to be led astray. So I thought something that would be based to do one day. Would be to have a bible with annotations & notes on key passages from both St Thomas & Pope st Pius X who loved st Thomas! An Aquinas & Pius X study bible, I think it would be based. Any way God bless you & your family & all that you put your hand to.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"when you said Pius didn’t want Catholics to read bible that would cause them to be led astray."

You mean Bible without commentary?

I highly doubt that he said Bible, even with commentary.

[And the comments under Grgur Ivas and Chris Knox can no longer be accessed, even if they are counted]