Some Evangelical Is Trolling Me

Don't get me wrong. I don't consider it trolling when I get answers.

But when I have an answer of mine deleted, yes, I tend to take that as trolling.

First two comments of mine that didn't get into debates.

5:03 In the months prior to 14, I thought Lutherans got the Church History bit.

Before 16 I knew very well they hadn't, to begin with, because I happened learn about the Swedish Reformation (sorry, it should be a D there), which is not unlike the English Reformation (oops, I did it again). Well, except for one thing. Sweden never had a Lollard movement and Sweden never had any Tyndale. Sweden was Lutheran officially in 1527, which is before Tyndale got to prison or met Latomus, who was not opposed to translating the Bible, he just thought Tyndale was VERY off theologically.

Now, with or without Tyndales, with or without a Lollard movement, both Deformations looked to me very much like the Russian and French Revolutions.

Since 16, I have never considered Protestantism an option.

To be fair, Evangelicals are only half and half Protestants, they tend to have a Catholic theology of Grace (except for Sacramentology). Lutherans don't even have that.

5:53 That accent was fairly fake German, but if anything South German. Luther was a Saxon, Middle East German.

Wittenberg is 507 to 563 km from Munich depending on what road you take, it is far closer to Berlin.

To Berlin, it's 88 to 111 km, which translates to 54 to 69 miles.

Now for the debate. Ruslan or his pal had just mentioned how Lutherans and Anglicans were far closer to Catholics.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

5:40 In sacramentology, yes.

In soteriology or theology of grace, no.

Evangelicals typically believe in Infused Grace, like Catholics and Orthodox, and also in Lordship Salvation of some sort.

Ansich

@ansich3603

No, Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, not infused, Calvin and Luther both agreed with that, even luther called it alien righteousness. We are not made righteous (because we are sinner) but declared as righteous by the righteousness of Christ. However, God also sanctified us in this world.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@ansich3603 Which is where Baptists and Evangelicals tend to differ from them.

Ansich

1689 Baptist Confessions of Faith stated that:

Justification is by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.

I think this is what majority of Baptist believe, even many Baptist are actually reformed baptist. And for evangelicalism it is a broad camp of protestantism, there are debate on this issue but saying evangelical are typically believe in infused righteusness is misleading, many of them ,if not most of them, are in agreement with imputed righteousness.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@ansich3603 Don't they believe in Lordship salvation; typically?

That's NOT what Luther meant by imputed righteousness. That's NOT what the Reformation involved historically.

If I were to take a shot, I've never been Evangelical as an adult, I converted to Lutheranism and then in the teens to Catholicism, I'd say, Evangelicals tend to believe, nominally, in imputed righteousness, but this is more about the moment of getting saved, and from then on, it's more and more of infused righteousness, a k a sanctification. If that's lacking, the original justification wasn't genuine in the first place.

Ansich

@hglundahl i think youre confusing justification and sanctification, sanctification is not the based for our justification. Justification is only by faith alone, but not faith that is alone, good works are neccesary fruit of our faith (this is from luther). However, we are not justified by good works.

Here is where the trolling occurred

I answered. I look it up. My answer is now gone. Some "Ansich" is now standing as the last participant in the debate, as if I had had nothing to answer.

So, what did I basically answer? What would I answer if I didn't consider the procedure of either Ansich or perhaps even Bless God Studios fraudulent?

First, sanctification as seen by Evangelicals is closer to how Catholics see it. It's God transforming one from within. The distinction between justification and sanctification is a sham, and it has been beautifully exposed as such by the Dimond Brothers, but in fact, it's not as sham as the theology of the reformers. For ...

Second, sanctification is part of what is called Lordship salvation to Evangelicals. This means, keeping the commandments is a must. If one continuously offends against them, it means one wasn't genuinely justified in the first place. To a Lutheran, this would be "works salvation" ...

Third, this is why Lutherans and Anglicans allow divorcees to remarry. And the abortion provider killed by Bob Dear was ussher in a Lutheran "church" ... justice is a social thing, Romans 13 is more important than Ten Commandments to those guys.

By the way, earlier Ansich used the phrase "imputed righteousness, not infused" ... I had used the term "infused grace" and not the term "infused justice" ... the justice is fruit of the grace, and as such is salvific. Works performed without grace aren't.

Here is the original video my three comments reacted to:
IS THIS The CHURCH Martin Luther Imagined During The Reformation?
Bless God Studios | 4 Nov. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faOHmhP2i54

If I had had an answer from Ansich instead of a delete of my own answer, I had guessed it might be sth on the lines of trying to prove the point, and referring to the persons of the Reformers (Deformers). I would have pointed at the evil deeds through which the Deformations were done in countries. Scotland and Geneva, pretty cultlike takeovers of the public life. England and Sweden, things like tearing down churches, like how Sigtuna lost its old parish church, St. Olof, since the king's plan was to put all into the Dominican Church St. Mary, which was biggest, accessing only ONE clergyman, the one who was in charge of changing doctrine and worship the Lutheran way. In Ystad, which was then Danish, the prior of the Franciscans made a gesture of protest and was promptly killed by a halberd in the head, as if the soldiery of the Lutherans were once again Vikings, angry at people worshipping Christ instead of Thor and Odin.