Wednesday, June 19, 2019

Answers on Palestinian Origins

Who are the Palestinians? An Arab Invention. CBN.
Anthony Lee | 1.VIII.2015

It so happens, Palestinians are people, not just anyone's invention.

It so happens, there is a presence on that ground from the time when the first Christian Palestinians were the first Marranos. Later on, the ones becoming Muslim under "pressure" from invader, to put it very mildly, became the first Dönmes.

1:11 It so happens, Hitti was educated by Presbyterians, who had a bias against Catholic and Orthodox Palestinians.

"He was educated at an American Presbyterian mission school at Suq al-Gharb and then at the American University of Beirut (AUB). After graduating in 1908 he taught at the American University of Beirut before moving to Columbia University where he earned his PhD in 1915 and taught Semitic languages. After World War I he returned to AUB and taught there until 1926. In February 1926 he was offered a Chair at Princeton University, which he held until he retired in 1954."

As to earlier quote from Awni, I think it is taken out of context.

1:46 Hafez to Yasser quote, well, I think there were Syrians in OT times too who wanted Palestine, i e Holy Land, included as part of their land, the Levant.

Recall the one who needed his leprosy cured and went to Elisha?

2:37 "Palestinians are Canaanites"

No more than other Israelites, except with Philistines and Danites at Gaza strip.

3:40 "Palestinians are Philistines"

No more than other Israelites who came from some people assimilating Philistine minorities ....

5:43 They [Palestinians] also share DNA with Shepharadic Jews. For that matter, Y-chromosome DNA even with Ashkenazi Jews.

Just before 6:04 Actually, there was a period when Roman Citizens there thought of their land as Palestine. Before the Arabian conquest.

It so happens, some Palestinians are, in terms of a certain Arabo-Islamic Empire "Araba" by the fact of coming along with Omar. Often they are also even Shareefs, that is descendants of Mohammed, who was Ishmaelite or Madianite.

But Palestinians overall, as well as other Syrians, well, they are "Mustariba". Arabised.

So what population of Roman Citizenship can have been living in Palestina when Omar came?

People from Latium or Greece? Arguably some part, since pilgrims came galore. Some stayed and some who stayed did not become monks or nuns.

Mostly, they were the populations that had been ruled by Herod and Pilate.

The liturgic language of Palestinians is Syriac, that is Aramaic - the language Our Lord spoke.

Obviously Christian Palestinians, since the other ones have Coranic Arabic as their liturgic language.

Some were living as Beduins - as I know from the Church Historian Derwas James Chitty.

Check out his work :

The Desert a City: a Study of Egyptian and Palestinian Monasticism under the Christian Empire, 1966.

Most chapters deal with Egypt, last with Palestine. As it was called, not just under Hadrian, but also under Constantine and Theodosius and even up to Heraclius, who reconquered the Holy Cross from Chosroes II.

How Persians and Jews persecuted Christians under Chosroes is very telling. One of the items is Christians having dreams in which Christ was in Hell (you know the Targum Onkelos stuff) and returning to their ancestral Judaism.

Oh, wait, did Derwas Chitty say ancestral? Yes, he did. It's decades since I read the book, but I am sure he did.

So, population of Palestine when Omar came : Christians of Jewish origin. Some of them having resisted Chosroes with sacrifices going up to martyrdom, some of them having reverted as second time when Heraclius came. But either way, if Derwas said the Judaism they "returned" / "reverted" to was "ancestral" ... they were as Jewish as Torquemada.

"a fairly unimportant city in the Byzantine Empire" (7:04)

Except it has Holy Cross at that point, except it has Holy Sepulchre.

When Heraclius took it back from Chosroes, he was more or less a proto-Crusader.

"without a single Mosque" (7:10)

Yes, but Christian Palestinians (some of whom identify as Israeli Arabs, btw) are not dependent on Mosques for being Palestinians.

Or for descending from people who lived there 2000 years ago.

8:28 I am not surprised to her Saladeen was a fraudster.

I am not proposing a Muslim religious claim to Holy Land, but a Palestinian ethnic claim, since the ethnos is based on Jews, Samaritans, Galilaeans from 2000 years ago. Some of whom only later became Muslims.

10:23 Jews were here first. By the time of Constantine, maybe 50/50 proto-Talmudic and Christian, maybe already Christian majority - the population later split religiously into Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

Btw, they were not cut off from Edom, Moab and Ammon either, thereby fulfilling Isaiah 11.

Interesting how much you ignore indigenous Christian claims and appeal to Arabic Muslims who have other reasons to ignore them ....

11:20 And one can also remind us that neighbouring Edom, Moab and Ammon had been Judaised by being Christianised about 2000 years earlier, starting AD 70, when Christians of Jerusalem fled to Pella - meaning Pella in Jordan, not Pella in Macedonia.

Of course, a tourist book about Jordan omits this info.

Christians fleeing to Pella in Jordan and then returning, so the holy sites of Crucifixion and Resurrection were correctly identified is an integral part as I recall it of a certain book by my friend Stephan Borgehammar.

How the Holy Cross was Found. From Event to Medieval Legend.
Stephan Borgehammar 1991

He's my friend and benefactor, by the way.

So, commonality of Palestinian and Jordanian populations dates back to early Christian times.

Meaning, Jordanians have a strong Jewish (Christian / Muslim in confession, Jewish in ancestry) admixture, as Palestinians have a strong Jordanian one.

12:06 "but not to Israel"

US Americans invading Britain could claim English could go to Holstein (as origin of Angles), neighbouring parts of Germany (as origin of Saxons) and of Denmark (as origin of Jutes), and for that matter to Denmark and Normandy (as origins of Normans), and to Netherlands (as origin of Flemish), but not to England.

Just because US Americans of 13 states mainly came from England (not counting admixtures from Irish, Scots, non-British, including Poles, which are relevant comparisons for Ashkenazi ancestry, see their maternal DNA, mitochondriae not being Middle Eastern but Eurasian from further North), doesn't mean English are not from England.

13:56 I read a book bout history of Iraq a few months ago.

Interesting stuff about Hamurappi and all that, but it went on to WWI even.

Part of the Anti-British sentiments in Arab world leading to certain dispositions about Iraq is from English negotiations about Arabic speaking parts of Ottoman Empire.

Arabs took part in a rising against Turkey and thereby probably promoted Entente victory in WWI. One of the agreed conditions - this was prior to 1922 as WWI was ongoing - was to have a large Palestine under Jordanian monarchical mandate.

This is what Jordan claims on Palestine go back to in a more mundane sense than Isaiah 11 and its fulfilment 2000 or 1949 years ago.

Your 3 omits the Roman Province of Palestine. A Christian land of mainly Hebrew ethnicity.

14:52 "to call the Jews occupiers in their own home" ....

I refer back to my comparison with US Americans invading England to settle there.

Fortunately, so far, hypothetical.

"To call Yankees" (the word means English!) "occupiers in their own home! This is a travesty of history."

Note, I have not said much FOR Arafat's historiography. What he may have really meant was Palestinians descend from Jews, but he did not want to use that word.

West Bank was held by ancestors of Palestinians in the times of King David as well as of Christ.

And since then the Jewish people has split into three : Jews, Christians, Muslims, the latter two called Palestinians. The former called "Palestinian Jews".

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