"Bishop Barron on Vatican II"

What Is Your Opinion on Catholic Traditionalism? — Bishop Barron on Vatican II
Bishop Robert Barron | 22.VII.2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4h2ntfF76k

I

0:14 You claim to stand by the II Vatican Council.

Dei Verbum, § 3:

"3. God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7). Then, at the time He had appointed He called Abraham in order to make of him a great nation (see Gen. 12:2). Through the patriarchs, and after them through Moses and the prophets, He taught this people to acknowledge Himself the one living and true God, provident father and just judge, and to wait for the Savior promised by Him, and in this manner prepared the way for the Gospel down through the centuries."

This is obviously Young Earth Creationism.

Putting tens of thousands of years of a gap between Adam and Abraham doesn't fit with "and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care".

At the utmost, like Vigouroux a little more than a century ago, you could put large time eras into the creation days up to creation of man. NOT after them (Vigouroux considered that from Adam on, LXX chronology would suffice to account for archaeological discoveries).

So, on Christmas, are you saying "in the 5 thousandth 199th year after the beginning, when God created Heaven and Earth" or are you saying sth else, like "unknown ages"?

Source:

https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

II

1:00 Are you suggesting, one is a dead animal, if one is a Young Earth Creationist?

I think this team - unfortunately Protestants to this day, but that shouldn't bother an ecumenist like you? - would disagree:

https://creation.com/who-we-are

III

1:49 "there are things in any culture that are problematic"

Like unproven but supra-touted evolution from LUCA over millions and billions of years?

Not very likely to admit every man on earth today descends from an Adam alive 7200 (+) to 6300 (-) years ago ... for instance. You are aware pre-adamism is condemned, right? Jews can claim Adam was the first Jew, and Genesis 1 involves the creation of other men never put into Eden, never meant for Paradise, but we can't.

IV

2:42 "... and knows how to survive, the Church of ... John Paul II"

Perhaps a bit too aware on how to avoid ridicule in certain quarters too? If ridicule killed, you recall that "God of the Christians" with a head of a jackass on it?

James Hough Wrong on Biblical Chronology

James Hough

Sat

Catholic who teaches Catechism, RCIA, and Prayer classes.

Can a Christian believe the Earth is 4.5 billions old or does the Bible tell us it is 6000 years old?
+JMJ+

The Bible does not address the actual age of the earth. To try and force such an answer from the Bible is to misunderstand it wholly and to miss-use it.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

1h ago

False.

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it."

Adam and Eve were created the sixth day, and Adam was 930 when he died, 130 or 230 when he begat Seth. Genesis 5 and Genesis 11 give us no room for billions of years or even 40 000 years in human history, and Exodus 20:11 just cited leaves no room for billions of years up to Adam’s creation either.

A Historian (?) on Biblical History and Denying It (first 10 minutes)

Which Bible Characters are Historical? (Biblical Genealogy Part 1)
Useful Charts | 17.IV.2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtRR9RgFMg

I

1:01 "not to record literal history"

The Bible is not the Coran. The Coran consists of 114 sermons.

The Catholic Bible has 73 books, 1184 chapters, of which the majority (I divided by books they belonged to, even if Exodus / Leviticus also has law and Daniel also has prophecy), namely 680 chapters are historical.

I think your position is at best weak. Apart of course from being wrong, but that's what I am here to debate for.

II

2:37 "mythology is just a story"

If you limit the term to Theogony and hymn to Apollo dealing with his and his sister's birth on Delos ... fine.

If you include Hercules, Theseus, Trojan War, Return of Ulysses to Ithaca, we disagree.

3:09 Zeus and Prometheus ... can reflect real events in which for instance Watchers, while falling and being punished by God, also give some cultural assets to men (swords being one example).

If so, obviously changed in a lot of details, including final redemption of Prometheus by Hercules, so, as history at least very badly transmitted.

III

4:01 I place Homer as a colleague of Lanzmann.

Abducting Jews all over Europe is historical. That this particular family left a teddy bear or that particular family radishes and butter behind in an appartment that was emptied of inhabitants is reconstruction.

Obviously, exact wording in dialogues would be more or less well reconstructed and the parts attributed to false gods would be a reconstruction missing reality for the reason that Homer was wrong about the divine. Gods' debate on Mt. Olympus about Ulysses is not historical, doesn't mean his return from Troy to Ithaca isn't.

IV

4:25 The wooden horse - the guy who started doubting this was a cynic who thought Trojans couldn't have been that gullible. I think out of mistaken religiosity, they could have.

How Achilles got "invulnerable" doesn't affect that some people can go through many battles without being hurt by a single bullet or sword stroke. In German superstition of 19th C. one considered them as "geveit" - all bullets would miss them. It is very possible that both Sigfried's back and Achilles heel were examples of the one wound that finally took someone who previously had gone unmolested through the most iron raining battles.

Charles XII and Francisco Franco are two people who would not be struck by bullets (until Charles XII finally was so, in a war against Denmark).

V

5:17 "to believe this story is to disregard everything we know from modern science"

Note : from fields not actually yours, so you are trusting the words of "expertise" you didn't look very closely at.

5:31 "most Jewish rabbis"

Alive today, I presume.

"will explain to you, these stories were never meant to be taken literally"

I wonder if they can show you a passage in Maimonides or the Mishna for that, I don't really think so. As for the Bible they cannot, and as for the traditions about its content available 2000 years ago, Christianity shows taking it literally was at least one big option, and one shared by at least some Pharisees (Sts Paul and Barnabas had both been disciples of Gamaliel).

If not, I'd consider their "explanation" as very "convenient" as in the phrase "how convenient!"

5:35 "even the early Christian writer Augustine understood this"

You are going by urban legend, I have checked him out.

In Confessiones, nothing like it. I read it for university. In De Civitate, he says the exact opposite, and he starts out by not sharing what your view on the Aeneid would be, since he takes literally that Aeneas left with Troy's idol of Athena.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1201.htm

Book 15 Having treated in the four preceding books of the origin of the two cities, the earthly and the heavenly, Augustine explains their growth and progress in the four books which follow; and, in order to do so, he explains the chief passages of the sacred history which bear upon this subject. In this fifteenth book he opens this part of his work by explaining the events recorded in Genesis from the time of Cain and Abel to the deluge.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120115.htm

Book 16 In the former part of this book, from the first to the twelfth chapter, the progress of the two cities, the earthly and the heavenly, from Noah to Abraham, is exhibited from Holy Scripture: In the latter part, the progress of the heavenly alone, from Abraham to the kings of Israel, is the subject.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120116.htm

VI

7:32 "according to most historians, the best label for the Exodus story would still be mythology"

Meaning most historians, or the ones you think of as a majority, will be going to Hell, on top of, of course, reasoning badly.

7:40 "supposedly occurred around 1450 BC"

Roman Martyrology (for Christmas day) actually places it in 1510 BC.

"The Egyptians were keeping really good records at this point"

Dated in the very exact AD dating, wait, it didn't exist back then ...

Gregory of Tours considered these death dates (in AD reckoning) symbolically related:
Christ 33
St. Martin 444
Clovis 555

[The reference was not a bookmarked internet page available from "my computer" - non-extant entity - but a book I gave back and forget the title of, as well as the author.]

How many historians these days would consider St. Martin died in 444 or Clovis I in 555?

So, Egyptian records for what you think corresponds to 1450 or 1510 BC may refer to another time (I would argue later).

7:49 "there is no mention of the Israelites ever having lived in Egypt"

You are showing sth like the Turin or Abydos King List, documents of ceremonial value, with no narrative, and which would typically avoid mentioning embarrassing episodes.

You are extrapolating from omissions there as if you were dealing with Gregory of Tours, or Matthew Paris or Titus Livy .... give me a break!

8:18 Hyksos invasion happened after the Exodus of Israelites. The Ipuwer Papyrus, asking for Ethiopian help, evokes the invasion in terms reminiscent of the Ten Plagues.

It specifically says, Egypt had no army to resist them, and that would explicably have been the case after its drowning in the Red Sea.

David Wood on Hating Cops

Why Some People Hate Cops (An Ex-Con Explains)
Acts17Apologetics | 24.VI.2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnD5lS-rHJY

His five types of CO (Correction Officer):

• type 1 doesn't care much, obeys the orders to get his pay check
• type 2 wants to be popular
• type 3 cares and thinks being nice will do a difference for the better
• type 4 cares and thinks being strict will make a difference for the better
• type 5 gets a kick out of abusing his power.

I

7:30 Suppose someone legally went out of prison after serving two thirds (physically went out from a transfer to forensic psychiatry, but legally from a prison sentence), supposing the probation was supposed to last to 2006, and supposing in another country some people are acting like they need to keep him on probation still ... would you classify this as extreme type 4 CO?

Wait, would I perhaps have to reassess that as type 5?

II

27:00 How do you like this scenario.

Someone defends himself against a psychiatric assessment, shoots a police in the hip (1 dm long, max 1 cm deep, certainly hurtful), doesn't get sentenced to mental hospital AND in prison, in comes Muslim after Muslim, and when they are 3 plus an ex-Muslim on their side, they get the man to answer what he thinks about Mohammed.

The Coran is not the word of God.
Whose word is it?
The devil's ...

That's about one month before the rest of my sentence was transfer to forensic psychiatry.

III

29:24 I had a previous session where I saw up to 27 minutes in.

I went out begging.

AND, I saw, passing by my place:

• one police car
• one squad of military of the "plan Vigipirate"
• one smaller group of Paris municipal security.

IV

You are aware that Islamic Caliphates invented cops?

In Rome, Athens, Medieval Europe, arrests were citizens' arrests or by concerned parties.

In Arabic Nights [Arabian Nights], some tales seem to be totally fabulous, but of the realistic ones, those of Baghdad feature Harun ar Rashid as social worker, those from Cairo feature an ex-thief turned cop to catch thiefs.

V

34:14 "either been screwed or knows someone who has been screwed"

And God seeing that the wickedness of men was great on the earth, and that all the thought of their heart was bent upon evil at all times,

Does that mean everyone was screwing someone - or that everyone who wasn't, was thinking about such things, because he was forced to be concerned about the possibility of being screwed or the fact of already being so?

VI

42:02 You have studied Islam, though.

I have a half memory from somewhere, where the Bible claims Christ is 72 from Adam (Lk 3), Muslims (outside Coran, perhaps a hadith) claims Mohammed was even closer, 39 from Adam - is this true?

Here is where I made a point about it:

Creation vs. Evolution : Muslims and my Creationism
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2020/06/muslims-and-my-creationism.html

VII

44:32 I'm reminded of the SuperKasher shooter Coulibaly.

His wife went to Syria, and before that, her life in France had been a nightmare, one trip to CPS after another.

He may have done the shooting to pay her ticket to Syria.

VIII

49:27 Weeding out bad apples would be a challenge for ... Christ, at and after Harmageddon.

Your type 3 officer sometimes needs some back up from type 2 before getting a chance with certain prisoners.

Your type 4 officer facing some may need the help of a type 5.

Both need the help of a type 1 and obviously he is also useful to keep a balance between 3 and 4.

But one more - as people lie, how can one know for sure whether someone is even type 3 or type 5?

Victims of psychiatry know some people capable of sounding to others like type three, while they know the substance of it could as well come from a type 5. And weeding out type 5 may also mean weeding out type 4 ... especially inexperienced ones who don't know how to represent their case.

I was a teacher. I was trying to be type 3 verging on 2, but this was sabotaged by some. I was trying to be type 4 about those disruptive to lessons. This got painted first as type 5 and later as madness.

No, I don't think I would be a good teacher in public school system in or outside Sweden - I also don't think it should exist in its present shape, as compulsory for all.

IX

49:42 You believe in personality tests?

I was born september 6 1968, at 18 - 18:15 in Vienna, look up my horoscope (I haven't, but can directly tell Virgo for sun and Pisces for ascendant), use that as a personality test if you like. Make sure I have no planet in scorpio and not Saturn in a place where it would be too harmful (Saturn is major misfortune, Mars minor misfortune).

That is about as much worth, perhaps even somewhat more, than personality tests.

If you think the Coran is bad (I'd agree), how aren't you sifting midge when it comes to DSMH? Overemphasis on mental illness is also a trait of - historic Caliphate. If you don't believe me, try recalling some things Nabeel said before converting, and then read Arabian Nights tale of he Talkative Barber!

A Mob in St. Louis

If the city had been named by Englishmen or Irishmen, it would have been called St. Lewis, that's the English form ... but it was taken over from French who had already called it St. Louis.

Anyway, the idea is, St. Lewis IX of France invading Tunisia was some kind of racist, which he was not.

Fr Stephen Schumacher Defends Statue of St. Louis
Complicit Clergy | 29.VI.2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYYxoe80Oz8

• 1) Tunisia was not inhabited by Black Africans.
• 2) Not sure if Arabs had killed off Berbers and Kabyls there, but they weren't Black Africans either.
• 3) Whoever lived in Tunisia, Arabs only or Berbers too, they were participating in a cruel slave hunt against Black Africans.
• 4) St. Louis did not come to kill the guys who lived in Tunisia for living in Tunisia, but to end (if it had been possible) an evil régime there, which had also hunted slaves on the Mediterranean, from France and Italy and Spain.

CMI, on Race, against Racism

Racism and skin shade - a biblical and scientific perspective
CMI Media | 25.VI.2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUCuSJHqCbw

My criticism is not of their main point, but of one historic detail, where we have had disagreements:

"all stayed in the same area"

Doesn't actually say.

Goebekli Tepe was not a place where you stayed for life, unless you were Nimrod and really high among his henchmen, but it's a place where you came to.

2:41 You are pointing at Classic Babylon, near Baghdad, NOT Babel, since Genesis 11:1 says "from the east" ... landing place where they met earlier was east of Babel, not North to Northwest of it.