The Amazing Faith of Mary (And what we can learn from Mary!)
9.IX.2021 | Catholic Truth
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- 5:12 While Zachary did ask "whereby shall I know this" to someone he would have been able to recognise as an angel, Mary was given a means of knowing - going to Elizabeth and looking for her pregnancy.
- Catholic Truth
- Mary believed the long before she went to Elizabeth. She believed the angel immediately.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @Catholic Truth Is this a Catholic dogma, and is this in all Catholic authors, and what does believing in the context mean?
she was troubled at being compared to Jael and Judith suggests a somewhat other story than immediate, complete, unreserved acceptance to me, but I have not yet looked up Catena Aurea ...
We know Elisabeth said "blessed art thou who believed" but that is obviously compared to the somewhat silly remarks by Zacharias : first, if he was a Cohen, he was able to recognise an angel of the one true God, so it was just impertinent to ask for verification, and second, if against all odds the apparition had been diabolical, asking the Devil "how will I know" is just as silly.
St. Elisabeth Cohen did not state that she was not giving the verification that the Blessed Virgin had wanted.
Btw syntax - "Mary believed the" - believed the what?
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- Now I have [looked on Catena Aurea]:
"GREEK EX. But as she might be accustomed to these visions, the Evangelist ascribes her agitation not to the vision, but to the things told her, saying, she was troubled at his words. Now observe both the modesty and wisdom of the Virgin; the soul, and at the same time the voice. When she heard the joyful words, she pondered them in her mind, and neither openly resisted through unbelief, nor forthwith lightly complied; avoiding equally the inconstancy of Eve, and the insensibility of Zacharias. Hence it is said, And she cast in her mind what manner of salutation this was, it is not said conception for as yet she knew not the vastness of the mystery. But the salutation, was there aught of passion in it as from a man to a virgin? or was it not of God, seeing that he makes mention of God, saying, The Lord is with you. AMBROSE; She wondered also at the new form of blessing, unheard of before, reserved for Mary alone. ORIGEN; For if Mary had known that similar words had been addressed to others, such a salutation would never have appeared to her so strange and alarming."
Origen and Ambrose are right about "the Lord is with you", but the words "blessed among women" had been adressed with some modification to Jael and to Judith.
Note also that the source signed as "Greek Ex." states She was not just avoiding the insensitivity of Zacharias, but also the inconsistence of Eve. Exactly as I had imagined She would.
- 6:39 Are you sure you are describing the Blessed Virgin's tactic of verification or making it to make sense correctly?
When exactly does it say She would retreat into Herself to pray and reflect to make things make sense to Her?
6:51 it seems you confuse "was troubled" with "pondered all these things".
There are different moments between the salutation of the angel and some more:
- 1) She doesn't understand what it is, She is troubled, doesn't say She pondered anything right then
- 2) She ponders things in Her heart in Luke 2:19 and 2:51.
- 7:27 I don't find Her going alone, without company or caravan, either in Luke or in Catena Aurea to Luke.
The haste doesn't necessarily mean She went alone, She could have taken servants in sufficient number, the haste does mean, She wanted to see the cousin's pregnancy at least confirm the words of the angel, if you ask me.
And She got confirmation way beyond just that.
7:33 She left Joseph at home ... but She had not yet entered into his household!
They were fiancés, not yet living together.
No reason why he could not be left out of a caravan, especially as She was on distinct women's business (helping someone to get the child delivered).
- 7:39 "and then, right after that, she comes home"
And Mary abode with her about three months; and she returned to her own house.
Luke 1:56. I am not sure this means She was left out of the delivery or whether there is a break in the chronological order, but I am sure that it means She did not go home right after that and it's time to deliver Our Lord. After the birth of St. John the Baptist, there are six months more to the birth of Our Lord.
After this, "Catholic Truth" makes many good points in a way I find somewhat overdramatic, but which seems still good. I did not so far watch to the end.