Friday, April 7, 2017

... Geocentrism, Social Reactions + Try at Debate


... Geocentrism, Social Reactions + Try at Debate · Me and Zarella on Quora on Heliocentrism and Joshua's Long Day · Me and Zarella on "qui loquutus est per prophetas"

Video commented on
Aftermath When The Earth Stops Spinning(full documentary)HD
Science & Nature Documentaries HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiqCowa0iQo


Hans-Georg Lundahl
As I am a Geocentric and believe the Earth is not spinning anyway and the Universe will go on spinning to Doomsday, around Earth from East to West each day, I am against the theory even before watching the arguments laid out ...

Alex Beath
...... no one cares

C.R.DESTORER YT
rosted!!!!!!!!!!

Klaminite
Hans-Georg Lundahl No one gives a fuck?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Last month (or so) exactly THREE commenters have commented under my comment, none to answer any point, first and last to tell me "no one cares" and middle one to tell me sth which is not intelligible to me, since in slang. A word I might have to look up in urban dictionary.

Now, if it were true no one cares, why do at least two, possibly three care to tell me that?

Jonathan
Hans-Georg Lundahl fake

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I am sorry, but you seem somewhat tongue tied and unable to do a debate with arguments?

Alex Beath
You were the one that came here looking for attention; you got it? What's your problem

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I am not looking for "attention" but for serious debate.

I did NOT get that.

Alex Beath
Sorry but why would you go to YouTube looking for a debate?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I sometimes get some.

Sean Watts
As you are a very bad troll, your statement is irrelevant.

Snipit1990
You came to youtube looking for a debate about something that is scientifically wrong? Though your response will most likely be I don't trust the science involved and then we will go round in circles like a spinning globe.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
"You came to youtube looking for a debate about something that is scientifically wrong?"

A debate will involve the other opinion which you consider scientifically right.

"Though your response will most likely be I don't trust the science involved"

If you state your specific reasons for trusting "the science involved", I will state mine for not trusting these as sufficient.

We see every day Earth still beneath our feet (or butts or stretched out bodies, depending on position) and Sun and Moon and Stars moving across the sky.

The claim you consider science is that it is the reverse which happens, namely Earth turning and any bodies above moving at least moving very much slower than this daily turn.

An extraordinary claim involving a need for extraordinary evidence - does the so called science have that?

"and then we will go round in circles like a spinning globe."

Whether that one be the globe of Earth or the globe of Heaven above Earth ... unless we agree to not trust science as a result, but trace the results to observations and logic.

And then see if what you call science reasoned well or ill from it.

Klaminite
Hans-Georg Lundahl So explain how the earth has such a strong gravitational field as to keep something many times more its mass (and density) in line, without scorching earth.

Your science was disproven many centuries ago, but for someone with his head stuck that far up his ass I'm not suprised you think the dumbest of things.

Hans-Georg Lundahl Also, since you essentially deny the existance of gravity, your own claim refutes itself. Centrifugal force would throw anyone off this planet, unless we had a counteracting point, also, since the sun now has no gravity, it would have moved a ways away from us, and so would the milky way. In fact, one could also note that there would be no need for trajectory calculations for orbital re-entries, since you can launch something up and it would stay there. It would also disagree with the seasons, since the earth needs to rotate on a tilted y axis, which it does. And, we would have been pounded by meteors had we not stayed circling denser object (your head, for example). Do you know how many deadly asteroids are colliding with Jupiter? So many that in the last twelve hours at least one would have struck us. Also, the moons the only thing that orbits us, along with my sides after realizing you actually thought you had a chance to "debate". No one takes these kinds of people seriously anymore. You're the same kind of person who believes causing people to bleed cures them from disease.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Nice try, I am right now a bit tired to go into all details, but two things jump out:

  • I am denying gravity, which I am not;
  • gravity is the only possible factor of anything astronomical remotely working, which might explain your impression about me, since I don't agree about that.


And what are you meaning with centrifugal force would have thrown us off the globe, if in Geocentrism there isn't any, since Earth is not what is turning?

[Perhaps hasty, it could be there due to turning cosmos]

"So explain how the earth has such a strong gravitational field as to keep something many times more its mass (and density) in line," You are presuming gravitational fields are the only things in all of human experience which can produce any kind of orbits. Like a horse race, jockeys and riders all circling around and around in an orbit, is that because of a gravitational field in the middle of the hippodrome, or is there another reason, perhaps?



Lee Dawkins
Hans-Georg Lundahl ave a word mate

Hans-Georg Lundahl
OK?

B T
Your argument is asinine as it's based entirely on the complete rejection of the observable universe and likely further discredited by being fueled by if not entirely founded on conspiracy theory.

As such, you have made your argument undebatable and welcomed ridicule because it is, quite literally, ridiculous.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
"Your argument is asinine as it's based entirely on the complete rejection of the observable universe"

The observable universe is observed from Earth and therefore from a Geocentric viewpoint.

You may of course reject it, in favour of conjecture, but you cannot claim to base that on "the entire observable universe".

"and likely further discredited by being fueled by if not entirely founded on conspiracy theory."

That is as much a conjecture (namely about me) as the kind of conspiracy theories I presume and conjecture you think of are conjectures about scientists.

So, no, I have not made my argument undebatable, you have pretended to find it such by conjectures of what it means, ignoring what it says on the can.

Giovanni Panaka
Hans-Georg Lundahl go back to elementary bro

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Noting another school ground bully who can't be bothered to actually argue rationally.

Problem is, I lost count ...

[To Giovanni Panaka]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Above was to Giovanni Panaka

Here is an answer to Timedi Causa Est Nescire, whose much more civilised comment ws removed as spam.

"Hans-Georg Lundahl I will willingly argue with you, however I will only make this reply and will wake up tomorrow and continue. I will try to make this debate as civilized as possible, I will start with a question, just to get to know you. What evidence was sufficient enough in your point of view that it convinced you the earth was flat? Also, I think you should know, I am quite well informed about the flat earth theorem. (Edit) I think it would only be appropriate if you asked me a question as well to get this started, after you answer mine of course. "

This was: "Removed as spam and only visible to you"

Now, there is a problem, not just with his Latin, timendi, not timedi, please, but also with his logic. I never ever in this thread or otherwise said I subscribed to the Flat Earth theorem.

And I don't do that. I am Geocentric, not Flat Earth.

The primary evidence for any geocentric is we see and feel Earth non-moving and see heavenly bodies moving at our normal stations of observation.

A somewhat more recondite evidence has nevertheless convinced many Catholics that the earth is moving. It is Bessel's observation, which he considered to be "parallax" and which phenomenon is therefore commonly referred to as parallax. Parallax means the apparent movement in an observed body due to real movement in the observer (including in the place he is observing from).

Now, what convinced me that "parallax" (as per Bessel's observation) need not be parallax (as per above explanation) and could well be a proper movement, as well as "aberration" being so, is that stars have been observed with proper movements actually termed such, much greater than parallax, about half as great per year, but linear not circular, compared to aberration.

What convinces me that circular proper movements in good accord with sun's movement as to time, but not necessarily as to pace, is at all possible is that as a Catholic I believe there are angels, and as a Thomist I knew already that St Thomas Aquinas believed heavenly bodies were moved by angels.

Megan Richards
Sigh Yeah no-one cares about your attention seeking comment. We know you don't believe that so stop trying to stir shit up we have enough of that online as it is.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Another attempt to interrupt the debate.

Interesting that you can "know" sth which is contrary to the facts.

Alex Beath
How do you mute a comment thread this is getting fuckin ridiculous now

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Yes, your attempts of interrupting debate by telling me what can and what can't be debated, is actually ridiculous.

Since I started thread, I might be the one who can mute it (apart from video owner?), and I am not doing it.

Meanwhile
This post has got 66 views since first posted, 12 last 24 hours, and the stats for blog as a whole for that time (11-12.IV.2017, c. 11:20) are France 109, Belgium 52, United Kingdom 26, United States 6, Russia 2, Australia 1, China 1. If all who are either watching this as separate post or as top of main page of blog can get into their heads I am serious about this debate and annoyed by these guys trying to block debate, that would be fairly good./HGL

Alex Beath
I'm literally involved in your little 'debate' in no way shape or form

Hans-Georg Lundahl
You are however disrupting with your comments a thread I started in view of getting precisely a debate.

If you want to substantiate your words, leave off commenting here. You CAN mute your own reception of updates, you know!

Megan Richards
Okay you want 'debate' sure. Say you do believe earth is the center of the solar system/universe. My first question to you than is how would that be possible? Based on what we know of how physics functions here on earth and in outer space something the size of earth would never be able to hold something the size of the sun in orbit, let alone our entire solar system. Even our own itty bitty moon is moving away from us because our planet's gravitational pull on it isn't strong enough to keep it dead locked in orbit for long.

Second question I have for you is how can earth be the center of the universe when there can be no true 'center' to the universe? As when speaking from a physics and logic standpoint everything used as a point of referance would technically be the 'center'. The universe isn't a flat disc shape after all with a central point.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Megan Richards, hope you didn't take my remark to Alex as at you.* Here are some answers to you:

"My first question to you than is how would that be possible? Based on what we know of how physics functions here on earth and in outer space something the size of earth would never be able to hold something the size of the sun in orbit"

There are two possible answers, maybe some in between too:

  • 1) nothing is per gravitation "holding" anything in solar system "in orbit" but Earth stays fixed due to the divine fiat saying it is "lowest point" while celestial bodies are moved in orbits by angels, not by gravitation (purely Thomistic view)

  • 2) Sun is per gravitation holding things in orbit as per heliocentric model, but Earth is held even stronger in place by the gravitational centre point of the whole universe, including all stars (Newtonian geocentrism, as per Gerardus Bouw, Malcolm Bowden, Robert Sungenis).


One can think of combinations of these too.

"Second question I have for you is how can earth be the center of the universe when there can be no true 'center' to the universe? As when speaking from a physics and logic standpoint everything used as a point our galaxy" = one among many, no centre known.The even older view is of course, there is a sphere of fixed stars, within which youof referance would technically be the 'center'. The universe isn't a flat disc shape after all with a central point."

There you are presuming "scientific knowledge" as premiss worthy raw data, when in fact the acentric view of the universe is a very recent one.

Up to 1920, even a "Heliocentric" cosmographer would say that "the galaxy" = "the universe" = a globe full of lots of stars, including our sun, all way through, actually flatter on one axis than on other.

Then there was a debate between Shapley and Kapteyn which lasted 1920-30, then " have Earth (or acc to Galileo and Copernicus Sun) in the middle, and what are now called "solar system objects" (except Earth / Sun) between that centre and that outer limit.In this view, which can hardly be refuted except by assuming Heliocentrism already proven, there can be and there is a centre.

* Her comment was technically in two comments and my answer to Alex came between them.

Cray cray Wutang
Hans-Georg Lundahl how much do you lift bro?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Why? I did not say I was moving any celestial body, and angels aren't using muscles either human sized or superhuman sized, but their domination over matter is direct, not via anything in their bodies, since they have no bodies.

Days
later:

Killcard101
Did you get what you were looking for? Are you happy you had your petty debate?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I think some people here decided it should be petty, because each time I gave an argument in response to someone's, I got no further response.

That is not what I consider a debate. But petty, that is a word. For it and for those who were watching this video.

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