Wednesday, November 29, 2017

Inbreeding and Downs, Not Same Thing, Nor is Cri de Chat

I started watching this one, with Paulogia:

Eric Hovind vs Bill Nye - The Lost Debate - Population destroys Evolution
Paulogia : 31 May 2017

Before watching all, it was starting a bit slow, if I wasn't just tired, here is an argument on inbreeding.

Christopher Bell
All of their calculations start from an imagined event, with only eight people. If erics maths is correct, everyone alive today, would be like the inbred Banjo player in the movie Deliverence.

Christopher Bell Charles Darwin married his first cousin and all of his babies came out retarded. He thought he could make a superior race. I would want trust a A inbred. 2 Charles Darwin wasn't even a scientist. Just like you aren't. Evolution isn't science evolution has been dead. We are in 2017 we need to move on from believing a fairy tale such as evolution.

some replies, going straight down to my detailed ones.

"Charles Darwin married his first cousin and all of his babies came out retarded"

Source please?

Here I have one which argues otherwise:

"If erics maths is correct, everyone alive today, would be like the inbred Banjo player in the movie Deliverence."


Even if no one aboard the ark had the precise mutations Lonnie has?

Even if in fact they are not loci mutations, in his case, but caryogrammic ones, a k a a Chromosome too much or too little (not limited to 21)?

I don't think Lonnie's condition, if it had been a real case, would necessarily have anything to do with inbreeding, more like his ma had him too late or his pa did or both and so he had ovulum or spermatozoid with bad assortment of chromosomes.

Inbreeding is only responsible for diseases where there are two chromosomes (the normal number) with the same bad mutation, like bleeders' disease (haemophilia) or sickle cell anaemia. If, in the film, Lonnie is inbred, the film is perpetuating stereotypes which have little to nothing to do with actual inbreeding.

Inbreeding, that is recessive genes, here just checking most common [some of them, had no time for all]:

  • Symptoms of the most common (and most serious) form of Canavan disease typically appear in early infancy usually between the first three to six months of age[3]. Canavan disease then progresses rapidly from that stage, with typical cases involving intellectual disability, loss of previously acquired motor skills, feeding difficulties, abnormal muscle tone (i.e., floppiness or stiffness; hypotonia), poor head control, and megalocephaly (abnormally enlarged head). Paralysis, blindness, or seizures may also occur[4].

    Not Lonnie : if he had had Canovan, he would not be playing banjo.

  • Charcot–Marie–Tooth disease (CMT) is one of the hereditary motor and sensory neuropathies, a group of varied inherited disorders of the peripheral nervous system characterized by progressive loss of muscle tissue and touch sensation across various parts of the body. Currently incurable, this disease is the most commonly inherited neurological disorder, and affects approximately 1 in 2,500 people.[1][2] CMT was previously classified as a subtype of muscular dystrophy.[1]

    Not sure if recessive or not, but arguably not Lonnie.

  • Colour blindness, certain types (or most)

    (Like hemophilia, it is not recessive in men, one X chromosome with it suffices to produce it : if a girl has it, a carrier or affected mother married an affected man)

    Now, next disorder could be Lonnie, but watch the genetics, after that:

  • Cri du chat syndrome, also known as chromosome 5p deletion syndrome, 5p− syndrome (pronounced "Five P Minus") or Lejeune’s syndrome, is a rare genetic disorder due to chromosome deletion on chromosome 5.[1] Its name is a French term (cat-cry or call of the cat) referring to the characteristic cat-like cry of affected children.[2] It was first described by Jérôme Lejeune in 1963.[3] The condition affects an estimated 1 in 50,000 live births across all ethnicities and is more common in females by a 4:3 ratio.[4]

    As said, could be Lonnie - but can it be due to inbreeding? Watch the genetics:

    Cri du chat syndrome is due to a partial deletion of the short arm of chromosome number 5, also called "5p monosomy" or "partial monosomy." Approximately 90% of cases result from a sporadic, or randomly occurring, de novo deletion. The remaining 10-15% are due to unequal segregation of a parental balanced translocation where the 5p monosomy is often accompanied by a trisomic portion of the genome. These individuals may have more severe disease than those with isolated monosomy of 5p. A recent study suggests this may not be the case where a trisomy of chromosome 4q is involved.

    Trisomies are not recessive mutations, they are not things that come out through inbreeding. Those are mostly involved when there is "parental" contribution to the syndrome. And other cases of cri de chat, 90 %, are in fact de novo mutations.

    This means, these cases can't result from inbreeding either!

  • Cystic fibrosis

    Can be inbreeding, but can't be Lonnie. He could not play the banjo with that.

  • Down?

    Could not be Lonnie, he's not yellow and slit eyes enough. And, once again, trisomy is not inbreeding. Watch this on genetics:

    "The parents of the affected individual are typically genetically normal."

    Hammer, edited by Stephen J. McPhee, Gary D. (2010). "Pathophysiology of Selected Genetic Diseases". Pathophysiology of disease : an introduction to clinical medicine (6th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. Chapter 2. ISBN 978-0-07-162167-0.

    "The extra chromosome occurs by chance."

    What causes Down syndrome?". 2014-01-17. Archived from the original on 5 January 2016. Retrieved 6 January 2016.

    same archived:

    "The possibility increases from less than 0.1% in 20-year-old mothers to 3% in those age 45."

    Morris, JK; Mutton, DE; Alberman, E (2002). "Revised estimates of the maternal age specific live birth prevalence of Down's syndrome". Journal of medical screening. 9 (1): 2–6. PMID 11943789.

    Now, this is not inbreeding, but it is relevant for modern rural American and European populations with inbreeding.

    They marry first and second cousins, because they are too poor to find wives or husbands further away.

    They also marry late, in some cases, for same reason.

    They also - and this is a virtue - continue bearing children when continuing having sex past the prime of the mother. This also contributes to cases of Downs.

So, Downs and Cri de chat cannot be tied to inbreeding. Haemophilia can, and we don't see any bad things about the talents of the Czarevitch. It's just, he had better not stay close to battles and such. I mean, the bullets of Communists can't have been good for him if he still had haemophilia - he would have bled to death, if he didn't die before from wounds in vital organs. So, he would arguably not been good at leading armies, but he would arguably NOT have looked a bit like Lonnie.

This is the difference between inbreeding and most common cases of mental degeneration.

And obviously, none of the eight was arguably haemophiliac or with sickle cell anaemia.

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