Some Tolkien Matters Worth Noting (quora)

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Some Tolkien Matters Worth Noting (quora) · New blog on the kid : Is Reading Tolkien Studying Magic? No.

Q

What is the origin of the language of elves that is invented by Tolkien?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-origin-of-the-language-of-elves-that-is-invented-by-Tolkien/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered 53m ago

“What is the origin of the language of elves that is invented by Tolkien?”

There are two of them, Quenya and Sindarin.

Their linguistic origin is Proto-Elvish, or Proto-Eldarin.

Their factual origin, as that of Proto-Eldarin, is the linguistic imagination of Tolkien.

In terms of phonotactics, Quenya owes some to Latin, Homeric Greek, Finnish, and Sindarin more to Welsh and Spanish.

But this is just one of the aspects, the vocabulary of both Q and S going back to mostly the same words in Proto-Eldarin, while the vocabulary of Greek and Finnish have little to do with each other and less (especially for Finnish) with Welsh and Spanish.

Upvoters

CharlieAnne Excell

Helge Kåre Fauskanger, sometimes Tolkienist, semi-fluent in Elvish*

Rully Armando

Hans-Georg Lundahl

1m ago

Takk, Fauskanger*!

Generøst, jeg glemte Telerin* og Nandorin* og flere …

Q

What is a good analysis of the novel "The Lord of the Rings" by J. R. R. Tolkien?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-good-analysis-of-the-novel-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-by-J-R-R-Tolkien

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered Sat

Originally Answered: What is the novel "The Lord of the Rings" by J. R. R. Tolkien about?

His own assessment of the theme : death.

More seriously, it involves reflections not only on dying but also on two or three types of deathlessness. One of them very evil. So, his assessment at least is correct it is the theme.

More directed to the plot, it is about a ring which gives invisibility and some degree of deathlessness or longevity, and which was forged by “Satan’s” second in command Sauron (more or less equivalent to Abaddon, Apollyon, Antichrist, though here a pre-Christian version and no human body).

It has come into the hands of very weak mortals, it is desired as a weapon against Sauron by very much more powerful mortals.

Will they succeed in getting it to the only place where it can be destroyed, Mount Doom, practically at the back door of Sauron? That is the plot in very rough sketch.

Other answer

Ernest W. Adams

Tolkien reader since 1968.

Answered Sat

Originally Answered: What is the novel "The Lord of the Rings" by J. R. R. Tolkien about?

It is about saving the world, and the price that must inevitably be paid to do it. It is about the damage that heroism does to a hero. It is about the notion that heroism is a matter of character and integrity rather than big muscles and super-powers.

Q

Is Lord of The Rings a beautiful gay love story that narrates the struggle of homosexual couples in society?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Lord-of-The-Rings-a-beautiful-gay-love-story-that-narrates-the-struggle-of-homosexual-couples-in-society

Ernest W. Adams

Tolkien reader since 1968.

Answered Sun

No. Frodo and Bilbo were both bachelors with no interest in romantic relationships at all. Sam was a straight hobbit who had 13 children with his wife Rose Cotton.



There is no homosexuality in Tolkien’s universe at all. There are many close male friendships, however, which today everyone regards with suspicion because we are sex-obsessed.

Own answer

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered just now

Tolkien’s friend C. S. Lewis wrote a novel - That Hideous Strength - in which Merlin, come to our times, expresses extreme horror at the use of contraceptives in what would otherwise be a heterosexual marriage.

Since CSL himself accepted the 1930 Lambeth Conference, I think, or partly, though was against a couple in his acquaintances opting for no children at all, he presumably took the stricter view as the historically Christian one for his character from his Catholic friend.

Two more answers

Helge Kåre Fauskanger

sometimes Tolkienist, semi-fluent in Elvish*

Answered 16h ago

No, it is not. Of course you can always read something into the story if that somehow makes you happier, but we can be very certain that Tolkien never meant Frodo and Sam to be even the slightest bit gay.

They certainly come close to one another during their grueling quest, and Sam certainly loves Frodo as a friend and “master”, but that is all. Tolkien later has Sam marrying Rose and fathering a whole bunch of kids. The character is not meant to be gay. Tolkien would surely have found the very idea upsetting. We are talking about a devout Catholic born in the 19th century here.

Tolkien was not like (say) Anne Rice, who discovered that her initial vampire novel Interview with the Vampire was popular among American gays. Apparently the gay community appreciated the relationship between Louis and Lestat and saw some “homoeroticism” there, though it was not at all that evident in the initial novel. But Ms Rice got the message loud and clear and started producing sequel after sequel aimed at this audience, erotic attraction between same-sex characters soon becoming a running and eventually tired cliché. I like to believe that I am not homophobic in any way, but after a while I started to think: Can’t we have some instances where people who lust for one another are actually of opposite genders — you know, just for the sake of variation, Ms Rice?

But I’m pretty darn sure Tolkien would never have gone there, even if gay people were somehow demonstrated to be the main audience for high fantasy.

Ionut Sabau

lives in Oradea, Romania

Answered 3h ago

No.

Try X-men, if that’s your cup of tea. That’s way closer to what you’re trying to suggest. Not so much a love story, but it basically touches upon the struggles of “special” people in modern society.

Q

Why is it called 'Lord of the Rings' when there is only one ring in the story?
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-called-Lord-of-the-Rings-when-there-is-only-one-ring-in-the-story/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered just now

There is one ring throughout the story, but there are hints of the three and seven and nine rings too.

Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel carry the three elven rings, not made by Sauron, but which could be dominated by his ring if he came to use it, Gandalf not being an elf and having his from Cirdan who was.

The seven rings are those given to dwarfs to ensnare them in greed, and are the matter of The Hobbit.

The nine rings were given to men, producing the ringwraiths. All nine of them are deathless evils, quasi corpses animated by demons. They are also Sauron’s crew to get back his one ring. They and Sauron are loosely based on Koshchey the Deathless.

Q

Is Middle Earth in The Lord of The Rings a metaphor for China the "central country"?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Middle-Earth-in-The-Lord-of-The-Rings-a-metaphor-for-China-the-central-country/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered 2h ago

No.

Middle Earth is not a metaphor, but a hypothesis, the places shown in stories are on the west of this continent, which equates to Eurasia with Africa.

In the scenario given, this was the Middle of the Earth (of Arda) back when Earth was a disc. Two other continents or near such are mentioned:

• Valinor which was on the West rim and which was removed when Earth became a globe.
• Númenor which was a very large island, between Middle-Earth and Valinor, which sunk.

In “the Third Age” Earth is already a globe, Middle-Earth is the only known continent left, and Mediterranean has not yet appeared to separate Africa from Europe.

Q

What do you think life would be like on Earth, if Adam and Eve would not have rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden?
https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think-life-would-be-like-on-Earth-if-Adam-and-Eve-would-not-have-rebelled-against-God-in-the-Garden-of-Eden/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Studied religions as curious parallels and contrasts to Xtian faith since 9, 10?

Answered just now

Tolkien invented the Elves to answer the question.

Note, his Eldar and the Elves of folklore are not identic, he made a very peculiar interpretation of the theme.

They are his “unfallen race”.

Q

Is there any practice of alchemy in Tolkien's world?
https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-practice-of-alchemy-in-Tolkiens-world/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered just now

Not really.

Two “wizards” are both angelic but temporarily corporate beings, one of them, staying good, is practising what could be considered as “fire magic” as well as exorcism, the other is more into genetic engineering than into alchemy.

I have spoken of Gandalf and Saruman.

Rully Armando

13m ago

at the moment Gandalf open the doors of Durin, shall we consider that some spells combine with alchemy being made by elves in that entrance?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

Possibly.

But we could note that similar effects are clearly within our technological reach now.

Obviously, the word “mellon” would have to be pronounced exactly right, not sth the computer work would take as “mallon” or “millun”.*

If this is “alchemy”, it is at least offstage, we would be seeing results of it, not the process itself.

note

* Here a man is pronouncing "John Lennox" and the computer for subtitles is getting "John Linux":

Q

What are some weak points of Tolkien's world-building?
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-weak-points-of-Tolkiens-world-building

This question previously had details. They are now in a comment.

Quora Question Details Bot

Aug 8

Some areas do seem to be weaker than others -- past the obvious disperancies inherent to such a task like the Balrogs' nature, the origin of Orcs or the backgroung of Celeborn. What about geology? Economy? The sociology of the peoples of Middle Earth? Technological and philosophical advancements?

Other answer

with my comment:

Glen Tarr

Answered Jan 13, 2016

One difficulty I’ve come across is Tolkien’s idea that Middle Earth is simply our earth at an earlier time. How’s that supposed to work, given that what we call “Venus” is actually some guy with a shiny rock in a flying boat?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Just now

Yes, that would be the major difficulty.

We do know Venus is a rocky planet much larger than any boat.

Poetically it makes sense, in a way, but the Anglo-Saxon original for it “eala earendel, engla beorhtast” has none of this difficulty, since Venus as a rocky planet could very well have an angelic mover.

The Norse myth where Venus is Örvendel’s toe would of course make even less sense.

But poetically, Tolkien mixes these references.

Own answer

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Fan of Tolkien as well as of his novels.

Answered just now

"Some areas do seem to be weaker than others -- past the obvious disperancies inherent to such a task like the Balrogs' nature, the origin of Orcs or the backgroung of Celeborn."

Balrog's nature? Incarnate demons.

Origin of orcs? "Rebooted" and thereby depraved elves.

Background of Celeborn? It seems Tolkien reworked that, but reworking doesn't make either version weak.

"What about geology?"

Probably Tolkien's favourite in a way.

Silmarillion gives scenario which reboot Geologic column in Cuvier like catastrophism.

"Economy?"

It would seem Tolkien understood very well normal relations between agriculture and trade and how it could be rebooted for the worse by large scale capitalism.

"The sociology of the peoples of Middle Earth?"

Fairly well thought through.

There is a clear difference between Gondor, The Shire and Bree, Rohan, the Dunlendings, and also elven sociologies.

Taxation is not spelled out, but one can presume it was sth on Medieval lines:

Answering GRRM on JRRT's character Aragorn
http://filolohika.blogspot.com/2014/06/answering-grrm-on-jrrts-character.html

"Technological and philosophical advancements?"

Technological :

The Hobbits are good at things like comforts in the house (pre-inventing several house commodities from Victorian rural era).

The Orcs are excellent at military and "psychiatric"/torturewise technology.

Philosophical :

The point is, religion was revealed, and philosophical advancement, except on details of minute understanding, as made by elves, was not a thing, except a sham thing, like the alternative Satanist religion of Morgoth (especially as preached by Sauron).

* Helge Kåre Fauskanger is the site owner for this jewel of Tolkien linguistics:

Ardalambion
https://folk.uib.no/hnohf/

If you want to know about Telerin or Nandorin, Doriathrin or Ilkorin, this is your site. As to Quenya and Sindarin he has rivals, some say his view of Quenya grammar needs correction from one of the later books on the matter. However, he translated all of the Johannine corpus to Quenya. Gospel, three Epistles and Apocalypse. When he is not writing on Tolkien matters or detective novels of his own, he is a Bible translator./HGL