Friday, January 19, 2024

Someone Thought He was More Merciful than God (not than the one he believes in, but than the One Who revealed Himself)

Someone Thought He was More Merciful than God (not than the one he believes in, but than the One Who revealed Himself)Other Answer to Same (YEC)Breivik Didn't Kill Because He Believes God Will Send Muslims to Hell, He Killed Over Keeping Norway a Secular Society

The Fewness and the Pitilessness of the Saved in Traditional Catholicism
Kevin Nontradicath, 18 Jan. 2024

1:19 I looked up the numbers in his sermon.

Fortunately for his sanctity, as to numbers, he is relying in less holy men.

166,859 (deaths per day)
6,952 (deaths per hour)

1:42 St. Leonard and St. Thomas are in disagreement.

Unless child mortality is involved in the assessment of St. Thomas. He considered that the greater number of all people overall are damned, but the greater number of Christians aren't.

But obviously, in the quote as I recall it, he didn't specify Christians who live into adulthood.

4:35 Does he only quote the "little number" from St. Thomas?

6:38 The Catholic doctrine is, you cannot change your mind once you are dead.

Those damning themselves do not see God, they see Jesus as judge, they see His humanity, but they cannot see God in Him, though He is.

9:58 While damned people suffer with no hope, the suffering is not pointless.

The point is, they have cut themselves off of the source of happiness, and therefore of any possibility of happiness.

Luke 16
19 There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, ... 25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither.

The blessed accept the chasm as a chasm.

They also know perfectly well what the damned did to damn themselves.

10:16 If you persist in this evil and dehumanising attitude against real Catholics, I can not imagine pitying you.

People who have imagined my brain chemistry needs a change are the people who have done worse to me than that rich man did to Lazarus.

If you go on with that, well, I think I'll pity you as little as Lazarus pitied the rich man.

According to St. Gregory, we are in fact talking of St. Lazarus the Four Days Dead, as the Orthodox like to call him.

10:20 "Psychopaths with no empathy" are one category of people who are going down, unless they make sure to let their actions rise above their condition.

No, one is not a "psychopath with no empathy" because one refuses to pity the real "psychopaths with no empathy" for what they have done to themselves.

But that is just one of the circles of Hell, as I suppose Dante would say, if he knew the expression.

Please note, what can save a "psychopath with no empathy" is not having people watching over his every move, detecting day from day his either acts of empathy or lack of it. It is only a will to do better than one spontaneously feels like doing. Caregivers of the psychiatric type cannot provide that. They can if possible deprive even normal people of it, until they become to others and to themselves psychopaths with no empathy. Because such caregivers are so much of a burden.

But the fact is, there are lots of psychiatric networks that collectively are really "psychopaths with no empathy" as the phrase goes, and one of the ways they absolve their own evil acts before themselves is, they imagine they are dealing with a "psychopath with no empathy" ... they are taking out in advance the kind of joy (or at least self satisfaction) that the actual blessed get from knowing the real and ultimate "psychopaths with no empathy" down among themselves and no longer able to harm others than themselves and each other. Dito for the other conditions that theology calls sins.

If you put the contentment of the blessed down to psychopathy without empathy, in this connection, if you at least put down the imagination of this to such a thing, and you are then putting that down to brain chemistry rather than choice, you are both an incompetent philosopher, because in real life, as it can be observed, limitless empathy does not exist, and the lack of compassion with one is very often due to compassion with someone he made suffer.

I think you can see some people be very unempathetic over Gaza, due to empathy over 7 October victims. I think you can see some people very unempathetic over 7 October victims due to empathy over previous decades of suffering in Gaza. I think you can see some people very unempathetic over previous decades of suffering in Gaza over empathy with settler families or IDF soldiers killed back in the time of Ahmed Yassin. I think you could observe Ahmed Yassin relatively untouched by empathy with IDF or possibly even settlers (including children) due to empathy with Gazawis in decades previous to when he was the founder of Hamas (which gained power as social workers in Gaza!). I think you can find some Israelis unempathetic over that over empathy with Jews expelled from Iraq or killed in Auschwitz ... of which some well known deaths were deaths similar to those of civilians in Gaza. And I think you can find some Nazis unempathetic over Jews suffering in Auschwitz due to empathy with the victims of Ulyanov and Bronstein. Luxemburg and Kun. And I think you can find of their supporter unempathetic about Christian suffering because of their empathy with Jews persecuted by the Spanish Inquisition. And I think you can find some Inquisitors eager to break the ties of Crypto-Jews to the Jewish community due to empathy over Christians persecuted socially by Jews when they were freer in previous centuries or judicially by Muslim authorities put in place partly by Jews and Arians. ...

In other words, the most probable cause why any person lacks any trace of empathy with another person, is, not that he is a "psychopath with no empathy" but that he is empathetic to someone else instead. This is also the case with the blessed in heaven, with the difference, that they know that this time, there is no mistake about who deserves to suffer.

And obviously, the damned could also have been stopped from destroying the happiness of the blessed by the other means of total annihilation. But that would have been even more cruel a punishment than even Hell. Some men stop suffering from lice when they die; that doesn't mean that they prefer dying to be free from lice. The damned would stop suffering hatred of God and selves and human and demonic others if they were annihilated. But they would not want to be annihilated. Continued existance is what God grants them. Plus some clarity about what they have made themselves.

I am also very happy to have believed the doctrine of damnation on two occasions in my teens when my heart was so heavy that this was the thing that concretely stopped me from throwing myself before trains in very high speed. Those who don't believe Hell may have a very unpleasant surprise that doesn't go away. You see, suicide is another thing that is incompatible with eternal bliss, unless repented. And repentance is the thing that's not available to the dead.

10:27 I think most people refuse to envisage their own children among those damned.

What specific reason do you have to make that a priority consideration?

Was there some sin you refused to save them from? Or absolutely failed to save them from? Are you as heartbroken over your own sons as Eli was over his?

Well, if not, why bring that in? "The damned are obviously the children of someone" .... well, why does that someone have to be you?

There are questions that don't deserve to be asked, and many of them are asked by people trying to find fault with the truth of God and with those who remain believers in it.

10:38 Yeah, exactly.

They had some real trouble imagining you damned. The priority when we imagine the damned is not imagining your children in that position to test if the God of the Bible is fair, it's to imagine those people there who ... will hear words like:

Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.

Ultimately all mortal sin is unempathetic, and that's not who God wants close to His own.

Including the sin of certain networks who speculate about the "brain chemistry" of "unempathetic psychopaths" ... or who think they are very empathetic because being unempathetic is the one sin they recognise.

10:46 No, I don't think they disagreed with St. Thomas Aquinas. I think they have not given up on you.

11:07 In this life, your parents are biologically hardwired to hope for you.

In the afterlife, immediately, we are put out of biology. Not for ever, there is a resurrection, but immediately.

To some, this is an occasion to see some clearer.

And the mothers who see their sons damned, or daughters damned, will have a good laugh, and say "I never thought you were that ridiculous" ...

Kevin Nontradicath
That is exactly what I meant by "psychopathy" in my thumbnail.

Hans Georg Lundahl
No, @NontraditionalCatholic ... those who are that unfortunate will realise that they have never loved the child that actually ultimately was, the person they were loving in this life was a very sanitised illusion of the real person.

11:21 You are disgusted at the saints rejoicing in the suffering of the damned?

That means, you are disgusted at some rejoicing. Because it's joys that are on your view utterly worthless.

What if God had exactly the same attitude at some joys that the damned would prefer to their pains, and they consistently refuse to prefer other joys, that God could grant with no disgust?

And what if the saints simply shared the sentiment?

A teen who discovers sensuality is normally bashful. As should be. But a married man or woman need not be bashful before the spouse. There is a time when a sentiment is unsafe. There is another time when the same sentiment is safe. The same goes for being disgusted with someone. And picking the saints over the damned for disgust is a thing I hope you get over before it's too late to change sides.

11:32 I'm reminded of the last Dracula film I heard of. A Vlad Tepec who hears from the Pop his wife is in Hell. His sacrilege then makes for his turning into a vampire.

How about trying to make sure your wife gets to heaven instead?

11:39 You are forgetting that one of the reasons you love your wife is because God's goodness at some level shines through her, in this life. And through you.

In the ones in Hell, that is no longer the case.

11:48 Try to talk to a man who has suffered a very traumatic divorce on whether he's trying to get back his wife in this life.

In some places, laws would stop him from even sending her flowers.

Do we see massive uprisings, and men flocking or crowding prisons because they refused to accept the power of human justice?

Why imagine you can brave divine justice? Do you think that's even empathetic to your wife?

11:54 However, the Catholic Church did canonise Matthew, without excepting chapter 25. And Luke, without excepting chapter 16.

It's Love made Flesh Who said, some will end up and have already ended up outside all love of anything but themselves.

11:58 The sermon of St Leonard is however that of a canonised saint.

I am very happy that he was relying on someone else, he did not pretend to have had a vision himself, to the effect that on August 20th of AD 1153 on the hour when St. Bernard died, 4.7 times as many died as in an hour in 2024.

Which would have been an even greater disproportion if the overall human population was, as is probable, lower than now.

12:02 Yeah, St. Leonard was arguably wrong on how many died on a specific hour in 1153.

He might even have the total example from someone trying to make a similar point who was willing to make theological fiction a horror story, which apparently then St. Leonard wasn't doing himself. He was not wrong that some people end up damned.

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