Tuesday, January 30, 2024

I Was Trying to Have a Rational Reply to Tovia Singer ...

I Was Trying to Have a Rational Reply to Tovia Singer ... · ... He Seems to Prefer Apocalyptic Threats Via Paula Wallace

Though some might consider that's like hoping for figs from a thistle.

The video was claiming that Jesus did not fulfil Daniel 9.

Daniel 9 Demonstrates that Jesus Couldn't be the Messiah -Rabbi Tovia Singer
Tovia Singer | 28 Jan. 2024

2:24 How did sin end with Jesus?

  • From Eve and Adam on, sin had continued with every man
    Mary and Jesus are the first two persons with human flesh to be sinless.

  • From Adam on, mankind due to sin has had to die.
    Jesus paid for Adam's sin, so we can be resurrected.

  • From Adam on, mankind due to sin has been excluded from Heaven.
    Jesus paid for Adam's sin, so we can get to Heaven.

  • From Adam on, people have basically remained in guilt, even when God forgave, there was no ontological change.
    Jesus gave forgiveness of sin, so that a sinner who is baptised or who repents as an adult and goes to confession is a new creature.

  • From Babel on, lots of sins have dominated society. Slavehunt being one of them, and Exodus 21:16 says this merits death penalty. Abortion, among pagans.
    Christianity has ended abortion and slavehunt, not as features of bandits, but as things in civilised society.

  • From some time after Babel, demons have misled people after people into not just false belief, but also worshipping what one should clearly see is not God. Like Apollo of Delphi.
    Christianity ended paganism.

  • Since sin was Satan's victory, mankind was Satan's property since Adam sinned.
    Since sinlessness is God's victory, we have a chance to be God's property instead.

2:50 The answer is yes.

Ryvon Krygier in his planned speech for Notre Dame, where he shouldn't have been received, challenged on Isaias 11.

I have answered the challenge, and been ignored.

The Greater Israel actually was there in the 1st C. Christian Jews, Samarians, Galilaeans, Edomites, Moabites and Ammonites, as well as Egyptians and people from Mesopotamia.

The central population of that are Palestinians. The Muslim Palestinians are basically Christian Palestinians who became Muslims, and Mitsrahi Jews who became Muslims, a very early population of Yanissaries and Dönmes. Some later became the Druz. The Christian Palestinians however started out as such in the first century, and are therefore the world's oldest population of Marranos.

So, yes, Jesus actually did accomplish Isaias 11.

3:58 Catholic Comment here:

Ver. 24. Seventy weeks (viz. of years, or seventy times seven, that is, 490 years) are shortened; that is, fixed and determined, so that the time shall be no longer. (Challoner)

This is not a conditional prophecy. Daniel was solicitous to know when the seventy years of Jeremias would terminate. But something of far greater consequence is revealed to him, (Worthington) even the coming and death of the Messias, four hundred and ninety years after the order for rebuilding the walls should be given, (Calmet) at which period Christ would redeem the world, (Worthington) and abolish the sacrifices of the law. (Calmet)

Finished, or arrive at its height by the crucifixion of the Son of God; (Theod.) or rather sin shall be forgiven. Hebrew, "to finish crimes to seal (cover or remit) sins, and to expiate iniquity."

Anointed. Christ is the great anointed of God, the source of justice, and the end of the law and of the prophets, (Acts x. 38. and 1 Corinthians i. 30; Romans x. 4.; Calmet) as well as the pardoner of crimes. These four characters belong only to Christ. (Worthington)

Ver. 25. Word, &c. That is, from the twentieth year of king Artaxerxes, when, by his commandment, Nehemias rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem, 2 Esdras ii. From which time, according to the best chronology, there were just sixty-nine weeks of years, that is 483 years, to the baptism of Christ, when he first began to preach and execute the office of Messias. (Challoner)

The prophecy is divided into three periods: the first of forty-nine years, during which the walls were completed; (they had been raised in fifty-two days, (2 Esdras vi. 15.) but many other fortifications were still requisite) the second of four hundred and thirty-four years, at the end of which Christ was baptized, in the fifteenth of Tiberius, the third of three years and a half, during which Christ preached. In the middle of this last week, the ancient sacrifices became useless, (Calmet) as the true Lamb of God had been immolated. (Theod.)

A week of years denotes seven years, as Leviticus xxv. and thus seventy of these weeks would make four hundred and ninety years. (Ven. Bede, Rat. temp. 6 &c.; Worthington)

Origen would understand 4900 years, and dates from the fall of Adam to the ruin of the temple. Marsham begins twenty-one years after the captivity commenced, when Darius took Susa, and ends in the second of Judas, when the temple was purified. This system would destroy the prediction of Christ's coming, and is very uncertain. Hardouin modifies it, and acknowledges that Christ was the end of the prophecy, though it was fulfilled in figure by the death of Onias III. See 1 Machabees i. 19; Senens. Bib. viii. h�r. 12; and Estius. From chap. vii. to xii., the changes in the East, till the time of Epiphanes, are variously described. After the angel had here addressed Daniel, the latter was still perplexed; (Chap. x. 1.) and in order to remove his doubts, the angel informs him of the persecution of Epiphanes, as if he had been speaking of the same event. We may, therefore, count forty-nine years from the taking of Jerusalem (when Jeremias spoke, chap. v. 19.) to Cyrus, the anointed, (Isaias xlv. 1.) who was appointed to free God's people. They should still be under the Persians, &c., for other four hundred and thirty-four years, and then Onias should be slain. Many would join the Machabees; the sacrifices should cease in the middle of the seventieth week, and the desolation shall continue to the end of it. Yet, though this system may seem plausible, it is better to stick to the common one, which naturally leads us to the death of Christ, dating from the tenth year of Artaxerxes. (Calmet)

He had reigned ten years already with his father. (Petau.)

All the East was persuaded that a great king should arise about the time; when our Saviour actually appeared, and fulfilled all that had been spoken of the Messias. (Calmet, Diss.)

Ferguson says, "We have an astronomical demonstration of the truth of this ancient prophecy, seeing that the prophetic year of the Messias being cut off was the very same with the astronomical." In a dispute between a Jew and a Christian, at Venice, the Rabbi who presided....put an end to the business by saying, "Let us shut up our Bibles; for if we proceed in the examination of this prophecy, it will make us all become Christians." (Watson, let. 6.)

Hence probably the Jews denounce a curse on those who calculate the times, (Haydock) and they have purposely curtailed their chronology. (Calmet)

Times, &c. (angustia temporum) which may allude both to the difficulties and opposition they met with in building, and to the shortness of the time in which they finished the wall, viz. fifty-two days. (Challoner)

Ver. 26. Weeks, or four hundred and thirty-eight years, which elapsed from the twentieth of Artaxerxes to the death of Christ, according to the most exact chronologists. (Calmet)

Slain. Protestants, "cut off, but not for himself, and the people of the prince that," &c. (Haydock)

St. Jerome and some manuscripts read, Christus, et non erit ejus. The sense is thus suspended. The Jews lose their prerogative of being God's people. (Calmet)

Christ will not receive them again. (St. Jerome)

Greek: "the unction shall be destroyed, and there shall not be judgment in him." The priesthood and royal dignity is taken from the Jews. (Theod.)

The order of succession among the high priests was quite deranged, while the country was ruled by the Romans, and by Herod, a foreigner. (Calmet)

Leader. The Romans under Titus. (Challoner; Calmet)

Ver. 27. Many. Christ seems to allude to this passage, Matthew xxvi. 28. He died for all; but several of the Jews particularly, would not receive the proffered grace. (Calmet)

Of the week, or in the middle of the week, &c. Because Christ preached three years and a half: and then, by his sacrifice upon the cross, abolished all the sacrifices of the law. (Challoner)

Temple. Hebrew, "the wing," (Calmet) or pinnacle, (Haydock) the highest part of the temple. (Calmet)

Desolation. Some understand this of the profanation of the temple by the crimes of the Jews, and by the bloody faction of the zealots. Others, of the bringing in thither the ensigns and standard of the pagan Romans. Others, in fine, distinguish three different times of desolation: viz. that under Antiochus; that when the temple was destroyed by the Romans; and the last near the end of the world, under antichrist. To all which, as they suppose, this prophecy may have a relation. (Challoner)

Protestants, "For the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even unto the consummation; and that determined, shall be poured upon the desolate." (Haydock)

The ruin shall be entire. (Calmet)

"and everlasting justice may be brought;"

The justice of Christ is everlasting in two ways.

  • It's the justice of God, a man who has this justice has "everlasting life" as the NT paraphrases it.
  • It's the definive law. Some laws of Moses were dispensations as the best that could be had at the time, like allowing divorce bills, and are abolished, and some laws were figures that now are replaced by the truth itself.

"and vision and prophecy may be fulfilled;"

Not only does the writing of the NT contain several remarks on prophecy fulfilled, but the Catholic Church has an exegesis on basically all of the Old Testament, including things that you didn't know had that kind of prophetic meaning on top of the historical one.

"and the Saint of saints may be anointed."

His anointing being then transmitted to the Apostles and to the Episcopate, this is the constitutive fact about the Catholic Church.

5:01 Yes, if the Gospels had began with a false narrative it is inconceivable that the Resurrection would have happened.

And if the Resurrection had not happened, the Church would not have begun.

It's easier for a community to tell itself lies about other communities than to do it about oneself. I don't mean things like misproportionate importance or things like that, I mean straight off lies, like changing name, adress, life story, sequence of events etc of founder.

If you ask us to believe the Resurrection didn't happen, you are basically asking us to believe the US didn't begin with George Washington making a Declaration of Independence.

It's not like the cherry tree story. George Washington didn't know Benjamin Franklin or Gilbert de Lafayette back when he was six, and he had no idea he would protest against George III about taxation.

Now, you could perhaps imagine a fraud about the Resurrection. Except a fraudster wouldn't decade after decade put himself into danger of martyrdom from [AD] 33 to 68, as Peter did. And if you pretend Peter was a dupe, who was the fraudster? The Church not remembering him would be extraordinary, like the US forgetting John Adams between George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

Hrvatski Noahid
Any Gentile who accepts the Seven Noahide Commandments, and is careful to observe them, is truly a pious individual of the nations of the world, and merits an eternal portion in the future World to Come. (And with this merit, the person will be included in the Resurrection of the Dead). Your idol is not special.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@hrvatskinoahid1048 Totally irrelevant.

My point was not about morality, but about history.

Hrvatski Noahid
@hglundahl The point is your hero's resurrection is not unique.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@hrvatskinoahid1048 I take it you are comparing Jesus to:

  • Hercules
  • Krishna and Rama
  • Romulus
  • Buddha

and a few more.

I happen to know their stories sufficiently well to know, no, the Resurrection really is unique. In each of these cases, there is a historic community who considered itself as descending from the hero or from those who knew him, spiritual or physical descent or both, and in each of these cases, I am willing to grant the main outline of the story.

None of these have died on a Cross (or otherwise) and been buried and then appeared to people who had also seen the tomb empty. With Hercules, Krishna, Rama and Buddha, we have a funeral pyre. With Romulus we have a disappearance, plus one man having a dream claiming Romulus appeared to him.

So, the Lord of Life and Death, Whom we know the God of the Old Testament as being, has not given any of these the kind of endorsement He gave to Elijah or Elisha.

You may answer, what about Hercules and Alkestis?
  • Well, we know the Phoenicians had contact with Greeks, we know the boy Elijah raised was in Phoenician territory, we know the Phoenicians were willing to identify their Baal with Hercules and so were the Greeks, so:
  • I find it probable, that Phoenicians attributed the raised boy to Baal, rather than to the true God, and I therefore find it probable this "story about Baal" became a story about Hercules;
  • who actually lived before the Trojan war in 1180 BC, while our earliest full length source about Alkestis is a tragedy by the Classic Attics, giving sufficient time for the tradition about Hercules to be contaminated by another tradition.

If you say "what about Dionysus?" I reply, the story of Dionysus was the story of Moses told at several distortions removed. How Dionysus challenges Pentheus matches how Moses challenged the Pharao for real.

5:17 Isaias 2?

I didn't see "world peace" but I did see international adherence to God.

16 And upon all the ships of Tharsis, and upon all that is fair to behold. 17 And the loftiness of men shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be humbled, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. 18 And idols shall be utterly destroyed. 19 And they shall go into the holes of rocks, and into the caves of the earth from the face of the fear of the Lord, and from the glory of his majesty, when he shall rise up to strike the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which he had made for himself to adore, moles and bats.

Why are idol worshippers called "pagan"? Paganus means "villager" ... well, that's where idols and their cults survived for some time when ROME cast away his idols of silver and of gold.

Where was Paul from again? Do you see a hint in verse 16?

Now, verse 17 has sth to say on Franziskanergruft and Habsburg burials, as compared to Nebuchadnezzar. At least these verses are ACCOMPLISHED in known historical fact.

Isaias 3

1 For behold the sovereign the Lord of hosts shall take away from Jerusalem, and from Juda the valiant and the strong, the whole strength of bread, and the whole strength of water. 2 The strong man, and the man of war, the judge, and the prophet, and the cunning man, and the ancient. 3 The captain over fifty, and the honourable in countenance, and the counsellor, and the architect, and the skillful in eloquent speech.

Also known as Matthew 5

4 Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.

From when Jesus founded the Palestinian nation, by reuniting Jews and Samaritans (Acts 2 and 8), to the present, Palestinians have been under foreign domination, and pretty content with it.

The precise fact some present as pseudo-proof they didn't exist for all this time, is real proof they had no own army all this time (prior to PLO and Hamas and all that).


Isaias 4 directly prophecies the Church.


Zacharias 9.

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Sion, shout for joy, O daughter of Jerusalem: BEHOLD THY KING will come to thee, the just and saviour: he is poor, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. 10 And I will destroy the chariot out of Ephraim, and the horse out of Jerusalem, and the bow for war shall be broken: and he shall speak peace to the Gentiles, and his power shall be from sea to sea, and from the rivers even to the end of the earth.

Accomplished in the Palm Sunday entry of Our Lord, and also in Palestinians having no army and consisting of both Jews and Samarians since the early Church.

Note he shall speak peace to the Gentiles doesn't mean the Gentiles will always be peaceful, but it means the Gentiles will be aware of angels singing (as it is written on St. Nicolas du Chardonnet in Paris) et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis meaning both that people of good will will have a peace that surpasses the understanding of the word, and that desiring peace is a requisite for being a man of goodwill.

And his power shall be from sea to sea, and from the rivers even to the end of the earth." Refers to the omnipresence of the Catholic Church.


Zacharias 10.

I'll not quote verses this time, but the Roman Catholic explanation, as a subtitle under the chapter number:

"God is to be sought to, and not idols. The victories of his church, which shall arise originally from the Jewish nation."

Hrvatski Noahid
@hglundahl Worshiping a person is idolatry.

Paula Wallace
As Isaiah tells, King David's progeny, a mortal man of flesh and blood comes at the End of the Days, he will be ANIMATED BY THE FEAR OF THE LRD!

Hans Georg Lundahl
@hrvatskinoahid1048 Is Ha Shem one person or three persons?

Either way, you worship a person.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@paulawallace8784 He showed that animation while cleansing the temple twice, one time just at the beginning of His carreere, one more time after Palm Sunday.

Hrvatski Noahid
@hglundahl Nope. The main prohibition against idol worship is not to serve one of the creations, be it an angel, a spiritual power, a constellation, a star or a planet, one of the fundamentals of the physical creation, a person, an animal, a tree, or any other created thing.

Paula Wallace
@hglundahl Preventing those who traveled a far distance to go to the Temple to offer their Sacrifices, destruction of personal property and causing a disturbance in a sacred place shows the animation of his narcissistic ego, just as the Palm Sunday incident, the very Opposite of Zechariah's Humble, Peace Speaking Donkey rider.

Paula Wallace
@hglundahl The definition of the word "Person" is a human being.
The CREATOR is NOT a Person, to worship a Person is to be an Idolater.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@paulawallace8784 I don't see where you get it from to say "the creator is not a person" .... do you believe He has not will or knowledge?

Hans Georg Lundahl
@hrvatskinoahid1048 "a person ... or any other created thing."

Who says a person needs to be created?

Are you denying the Creator to have or be a Mind?

Hans Georg Lundahl
@paulawallace8784 "Preventing those who traveled a far distance to go to the Temple to offer their Sacrifices,"

He didn't.

The merchants were preventing Gentiles from praying where they had a right to pray.

Jesus was chasing them away. Not the people trying to sacrifice.

Paula Wallace
@hglundahl The Merchants sold animals to Jews who traveled a far distance to the Temple, according to the Greek Tall Tales he caused a public disturbance and trashed other people's property all due to his narcisstic ego, that is IF he existed, which I don't.

Paula Wallace
@hglundahl Again, the definition of the word "Person" is a human being, a created creature, NOT the CREATOR!

Hans Georg Lundahl
I don't buy your definition of person @paulawallace8784.

If you define person away from the Creator, you open up for the godless Kabbalists who regard "God" as a primary force of reality, but not a conscious one.

So sorry for you, if your translation mistranslates, not my problem, since I'm a Catholic.

The people who had travalled far away could have bought animals outside the temple precinct. The temple authorities preferred saying "oh no, you can't pay sacrificial animals in denarii" ... and the Roman authorities said "you can't get shekels outside the temple precinct" — both made a profit of this arrangement, which was impious.

It blocked the Gentiles for whom the space had been made, outside the temple.

BOTH made another kind of profit too, namely by keeping Gentiles Pagan, the Temple authorities dealt only or mainly with Jews who were already used to them, while Pilate avoided soldiers becoming Proselytes.

Is Tovia Singer a purveyor of English tall tales because he speaks in English?

He's less Jewish than either Matthew or John, since he's visibly Ashkenazi.

Paula Wallace
@hglundahl So show me a dictionary that doesn't define the world "Person" as a human being.

Paula Wallace
As your posts reflect, you do not know Gd, Scripture, His Son nor His coming instrument of His Will, King David's progeny, much less the deep esoteric teachings of the Kabbalah, which is only for those who know Gd and His Eternal Truth intimately.

Hans Georg Lundahl
@paulawallace8784 Here is the answer to two of yours, already saved on my blog, but apparently deleted here:

[see above]

Now for more answers:

// So show me a dictionary //

1) Dictionaries are not the ultimate go to for true meaning of words.
2) There are probably plenty of dictionaries that have "human being" as at least one of the meanings. The Swedish Nordisk Familjebok has five articles on the concept:

Person, en menniskas yttre väsende - 1111-1112
Person. 1. Gramm., namn på den grammatiska kategori, som betecknar något af de tre förhållandena den talande, tilltalade och omtalade - 1111-1112
Person. 2. Teol. - 1111-1112
Person. 3. Filos., ett ursprungligt och sjelfständigt, sjelfmedvetande och fritt väsende - 1111-1112
Person. 4. Jur. Se Juridisk person och Moralisk person - 1111-1112

Article 3 refers to phil. an original, independent, self conscious and free being.
Article 2 obviously refers to the Blessed Trinity, since it's in Theol.

// much less the deep esoteric teachings of the Kabbalah, which is only for those who know Gd and His Eternal Truth intimately. //

Thank you very much, Our Lord Jesus Christ did away with esoteric teachings about Himself and the Trinity, insofar as Esoteric, and the ones left to you now are contaminated by your infidelity.

5:16 bis OT prophecy you claim Jesus did not accomplish is pretty fun stuff.

If you ever see any son or daughter of yours convert to Catholicism, they will tell you it's as fun as looking for the hidden matsa.

5:55 It's very striking you have basically no historic epistemology.

Given that lack of historic epistemology, how would you answer Matt Baker if he said exactly the same thing about Moses?

I mean the Matt Baker who's in "Useful Charts" and who's religion has more to do with Mendelson than with Amram's son.

Hrvatski Noahid
The Jewish people have an unbroken historical tradition to the very time of Moses.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Yes, we have that as the Catholic Church, @hrvatskinoahid1048 .

We also have an unbroken historical tradition to the very time of Jesus Christ.

Thanks for bringing up a bit better epistemology than Tovia Singer showed.

6:06 "pull out the camera"

Red Sea crossing?

6:12 "all the nations would serve him"

Jews, Samarians etc as given in Isaias 11.

Romans and Greeks.

Egyptians and Ethiopians.

Carthaginians like St. Augustine. That involves Berber populations of North Africa.


Irish, Anglo-Saxon, Frank, Briton, Norse, Finnish.

Pole and Lithuanian.

Ukrainian and Russian (at least those of Novgorod prior to Tatars).

Iroquois, Huron, Nahua, Quechua, Aymara, featuring both French Jesuits and Spanish Conquistadors. The Guaraní, featuring Spanish Jesuits.

Somewhat more of a minority in Chinese, Korean and Japanese people, but still, definitely present.

Sitting Bull not only died a Catholic, but actually converted Buffalo Bill before he died. So, add Sioux to the list or Lakota.

Please, have you ever read any geography?

And obviously a lot of Spanish Jews also converted. They are called Marranos. I like to think of myself as a Nordic Marrano, even if most of them are Lutheran or Pentecostal and I am Catholic.

Speaking of Pentecostals, Gipsies are often Catholic too. Speaking of Gipsies, Goa, Pondicherry.

And a Pakistani parliamentarian who was killed a few years ago, after 2000, for stepping up for religious freedom. Also a Catholic Christian.

I've certainly missed some, wait, Malawi and Nigeria, before I forget them. French Indochina. The last president of South Vietnam was a Catholic, his brother was the famous bishop Thuc.

If all the nations would serve him ... we do know.

6:20 I don't know exactly what Christians you frequent (though you mentioned Calvinists, that's a bad frequentation, if yours), but Catholics would point to most prophecies you mentioned as already fulfilled and already identifiable in known historic and geographic fact.

6:38 Holy of holies is a truth claim about anyone.

Let's say you identified the Messiah tomorrow.

How would you know it? It's a truth claim.

When you state that the Christian version of prophecy X is a truth claim you can't verify, how about checking whether your own hope of a fulfilment is a truthclaim you can't verify, or we would have to take your word for it?

But His anointing, as mentioned, has a relation to the anointing of His first twelve bishops. Which has a relation to the anointing of bishops up to this day.

In one of the prophecies I went through there was something about stones.

The last High Priest of the Old Testament we consider validly at any time of his life a High Priest of the most High, is Kaiaphas. The first of the New Testament is Petrus, a k a Kephas.

The one stone has not been left on the other (I'm supposing Hebrew original for Kaiaphas means stone, just as much as Aramaic original for Kephas), but the two stones have remained separate to this day. And of the Jewish High priests, after a certain time, no more stone was left to put on stone ... unlike the Christian ones.

Ah, yes, Zachary 9:16 And the Lord their God will save them in that day, as the flock of his people: for holy stones shall be lifted up over his land.

Refers to the papacy, which has persisted to this day.

7:07 The devil doing well today, nearly agreed.

The ending of sin is taken away, as Catholicism is pushed out of society after society.

However, it's not about the devil feeling fine, it's more about his raging, since he knows his time is short

Pope Leo XIII more than 100 years ago saw Satan and Jesus in a vision. Satan asked Jesus for 100 years to end the Catholic Church. I believe they started 1917, with the Russian Revolution.

I believe they ended in 2017, with a sign in heaven matching Apocalypse 12. Featuring constellation Virgo as the woman clad in the sun. One could not observe it from here, since the Sun was between, but one could verify the predictable astronomical positions of everything involved.

7:46 Would you mention one falsifiable claim that you pretend He didn't do?

I have seen lots of falsifiable claims He did do. We would have had another world history if He hadn't.