Too Much Respect for the Father?

Tolkien’s Heroes Are NOT Perfect—Let’s Look at Their Character Flaws
Tolkien Lore | 20 Jan. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAn8r-kqD4c

[Tolkien Geek had discussed Faramirs obedience when being sent to Osgiliath, and said " this kind 18:18 of semi idolization of Denethor [the father] by Faramir [the second and surviving son] you know again it's not to the 18:25 point of being like Oh my dad is perfect and nothing he does is wrong but it does lead him to take actions 18:33 that objectively are just they don't really make sense"]

Probably, Tolkien's biggest failure in character building is Sauron.

I think I have seen people somewhat more apt at evil than Sauron gets to be ... and he should have been at the polar end of, I won't say "absolute evil" but "utmost evil" (i e the most evil that can actually have a kind of existence within a good creation).

18:39 Would you agree that it is a real wrong in some religious traditions to overdo the respect for the father to the point of requiring semi-idolatry?

I would identify traditionally minded Jews, Muslims, Puritan Protestants, Freemasons as falling into this category, and that's the religions that to me are the religious side of "the leopard beast" in Daniel, which will be giving its general shape (i e general moral mood) to the final Beast from the Sea.

I have for instance:

• become Catholic
• become Fascist (perhaps not quite what some expect, a shade more than Tolkien though)
• become an exile from Sweden

and all of above outside contact with my father and without his explicit approval.

I would say that if these decisions are stamped as mad because of the "sin of disobedience to the father" they could be interpreted as involving, that would be pushing the veneration for the father to semi-idolatry, and in the case of the Catholic conversion, to idolatry.

Other discussions:

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gandalf66536 olorin

@gandalfolorin-kl3pj

Mellon Geek: I do not think Tolkien would balk at calling Gandalf an angel. Tolkien admitted in a letter than Gandalf was a guardian angel. Obviously, within the plot, this does not eliminate character idiosyncrasies that we can consider foibles. Yes, Tolkien truly knew how to make realistic characters in the legendarium. Your treatment of this topic is masterful as always. Namarie.

[I liked]

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Mark Bertenshaw

@markbertenshaw3977

I wouldn't say that Gandalf's main moral flaw is being a little grumpy! I would say that there is a dark side to Gandalf's ability to inspire the hearts of the Free Peoples. Essentially he is massively machiavellian in service of the fight against Sauron. He manipulates Frodo into an extremely dangerous quest for which he is totally unprepared. And he did the same to his uncle, to a slightly lesser degree. In fact, The Hobbit says that many hobbits have been taken away by him, never to be seen again. And I bet they didn't get a share in a troll hoard and a nice condo in Rivendell for their troubles! From this point of view, it looks as if Gandalf uses the peaceful shire as his personal recruiting ground. He may be sentimental about hobbits, but it doesn't stop him from often sending them to their deaths!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

"The Hobbit says that many hobbits have been taken away by him, never to be seen again."

mind giving a reference? which chapter and where in the chapter?

Did you note the comment by "Gandalf Olorin" saying "Tolkien admitted in a letter than Gandalf was a guardian angel."

Guardian angels always take the men they are guardian angels of to their death, because that's where their mission ends.