And he cited traditions of men for it.
The Original War on Christmas | UNLEARN
UNLEARN the lies | 17.XII.2017
- "Have you ever wondered how the first American settlers celebrated Christmas? It might surprise you to find out that they didn’t."
I'd say Leif Eriksson, being a Christian, that is Roman Catholic, Viking did.
I'd say Columbus, Bobadilla, Ovando, Diego Columbus, Mendoza, being Christian, that is Roman Catholic, one Italian and several Spaniards, did.
Or did you mean the Palaeo-Indians?
Since they settled in the post-Flood lifespan of Noah, there was not yet any Incarnation of God the Son to celebrate.
Or did you mean the guys on Mayflower? Well, they were neither very Christian, nor very original settlers, even as Europeans go.
They would probably have killed you for keeping the Sabbath and for refusing Baptism of infants. You see, they didn't flee from a situation in which they were very actively persecuted, they fled from one in which they were not very able to persecute Catholics and Baptists under the later Stuarts as they had been able to under Elisabeth and James VI and I.
- 0:46 Excuse me, did you just call the half-Christian Puritans, that is Calvinists "Christians"?
Did you just call the traditions of the Catholic Church "pagan"?
0:54 "such as Christmas and Easter"
I think they celebrated Good Friday, on the usual dates as per Julian Easter calculations.
Not so sure they cared about ensuing Sunday of the Lord's Resurrection.
That they objected to Easter would need a documentation you have not given.
That they hated Christmas, I already know from Chesterton, whom I trust way more than you on such matters.
He proposed England should have a day of thanksgiving for Mayflower leaving England.
- 1:28 You rightly said "again" - in the meantime, Plymouth colony hadn't fared all that well without England, and England had insisted Christmas was legal.
"In 1686, the entire region was reorganized under a single government known as the Dominion of New England; this included the colonies of Plymouth, Rhode Island, Massachusetts Bay, Connecticut, and New Hampshire. In 1688, New York, West Jersey, and East Jersey were added. The President of the Dominion Edmund Andros was highly unpopular, and the union did not last. The union was dissolved after news of the Glorious Revolution reached Boston in April 1689, and the citizens of Boston rose up and arrested Andros. When news of these events reached Plymouth, its magistrates reclaimed power."
"The return of self-rule for Plymouth Colony was short-lived, however. A delegation of New Englanders led by Increase Mather went to England to negotiate a return of the colonial charters that had been nullified during the Dominion years. The situation was particularly problematic for Plymouth Colony, as it had existed without a formal charter since its founding. Plymouth did not get its wish for a formal charter; instead, a new charter was issued, combining Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts Bay Colony, and other territories. The official date of the proclamation was October 17, 1691, ending the existence of Plymouth Colony, though it was not put into force until the arrival of the charter of the Province of Massachusetts Bay on May 14, 1692, carried by the new royal governor Sir William Phips. The last official meeting of the Plymouth General Court occurred on June 8, 1692."
- 2:12 "This is why it is no surprise that the first states to legalise Christmas were the southern states of Alabama, Louisiana and Arkansas."
It wasn't a question of "legalising" as if it had ever been outlawed there.
It may have been a question of making it legally a holiday. As in outlawing business on Christmas.
Let's take Alabama.
"With exploration in the 16th century, the Spanish were the first Europeans to reach Alabama. The expedition of Hernando de Soto passed through Mabila and other parts of the state in 1540."
1540 was definitely before Mayflower.
"More than 160 years later, the French founded the region's first European settlement at Old Mobile in 1702."
Ah ... were they likely to celebrate Christmas? I certainly think they were!
"After the French lost to the British in the Seven Years' War, it became part of British West Florida from 1763 to 1783. After the United States victory in the American Revolutionary War, the territory was divided between the United States and Spain. The latter retained control of this western territory from 1783 until the surrender of the Spanish garrison at Mobile to U.S. forces on April 13, 1813."
So, Alabama was at least fairly well guarenteed to celebrate Christmas up to 1813.
- 2:41 Oh, semi-Christian Spurgeon, abhorring the sacrifice of Melchisedec and of Christ is cited as an authority ...
- 3:18 Spurgeon argues that he would need a divine institution of a feast, not a merely ecclesial one.
Well, two Old Testament feasts were not divinely instituted by Moses, but had a merely ecclesial institution after Moses.
Purim and Chanukkah.
See now the Gospel, on Chanukkah:
And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: and it was winter.
The ensuing verses show "Jews" (those rejecting Jesus, the Gospel was written after they had so usurped the name) breaking the peace of Chanukkah, but it doesn't show Jesus doing so.
Apparently, a feast being instituted by purely ecclesial authority was good enough for Our Lord.
Not so for Spurgeon.
- 3:27 "It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord."
There is no ordinance of the Lord saying so.
Christ did not complain of Pharisees simply keeping some traditions of men, but of their voiding the law of God to do so with some other, less pious, traditions of men.
He never condemned the category "traditions of men" as a whole.
But Spurgeon did, and thereby he was observing a tradition of men, and of men outside the Church of God.
- 3:55 "[awareness that it comes from ancient] pagan celebrations, and actually have nothing to do with Christ or the Bible."
Wiccans and Atheists are being culturally informed by the likes of Cotton Mather and Charles Spurgeon, then.
It's like "awareness" that God has determined every sin we make, which is in fact not in the Bible, but a heresy of Calvin, nor in Catholic tradition, but a heresy of Calvin.
- 4:30 "Many of the early Protestants"
Yes, and why are you so concerned with keeping alive their traditions of men, attacking those of the Church Christ actually founded?
5:10 I certainly found a perspective on the Reformation when Chesterton informed me of the same fact about early Protestants.
There is a reason why I reject and even hate the Reformation.
I may love someone buying in to it as a fellow man, as someone who might one day be Catholic, but definitely never ever will I love that horrible "theology".
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