Monday, April 22, 2019

AronRa Takes on Dendrochronology

How Dendrochronology Disproves Noah's Flood
AronRa | 23.III.2017

1:50 Ussher monk? Seriously?

"Ussher went on to become Chancellor of St Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin in 1605 and Prebend of Finglas. He became Professor of Theological Controversies at Trinity College and a Bachelor of Divinity in 1607, Doctor of Divinity in 1612, and then Vice-Chancellor in 1615 and vice-provost in 1616. In 1613, he married Phoebe, daughter of a previous Vice-Provost, Luke Challoner, and published his first work. In 1615, he was closely involved with the drawing up of the first confession of faith of the Church of Ireland."

One thing about Anglicans back then, just after rejecting Catholicism, was rejecting monasticism. Why would he have been a monk?

A real monk, however, used a similar method about 1000 years earlier, his name was George Syncellus. And nickname "Syncellus" refers to his having been precisely as monk sharing the cell with someone.

However, Syncellus used the LXX text. Flood 5300 years ago.

2:24 Nine o' clock in the morning in fact refers to other Biblical data, specifically the role of that time at Pentecost.

3:00 Tirade of your evolutionist extremism ends when?

ICR is the Ussher date.

4004 BC - 1656 years from Creation to Flood = 2348 BC.

I have seen a French disinformation where 2348 BC was presented as Catholic date for Creation, when Flood would have been correct, as some Catholics do prefer Ussher timeline.

In Roman Martyrology, the date for the Flood is 2957 BC.

Syncellus has a date further back than 3000 BC.

(5500 / 5508 BC - 2242 years from Creation to Flood - based on LXX =

5500 / 5508
2242 / 2242
3258 / 3266 BC).

Creation dot com is CMI = Creation Ministries International.

They may have one article saying 2304 BC, but they have others detailing the variation in options, between Masoretic and LXX and even Samarian timelines.

3:59 Genesis 5 for Adam to Noah, Genesis 11 second half for Sem to Abraham is pretty "plain sailing". The question is just which text you have and whether you think 930 means "from 929 and one day to 930 years exactly" or "from 930 years exactly to 931 minus one day" or "between 925 and 935" to take Adam's age as an example.

But between Abraham and Christ there are so many different texts to take into account that Abraham's birthday in BC terms can vary over more than a century, simply by what you are looking at. One issue is whether 430 years mentioned in a promise to Abraham involves the time when patriarchal families lived in Canaan or only starts when they move to Egypt. There are others.

4:29 Thank you for a bristle cone pine arguing in favour of a LXX reading ... (they push Flood back, since those arguing for LXX readings argue the Masoretic timeline between Flood and Abraham was deliberately shortened by Jews rejecting Christianity, there is a passage in Josephus where he gives the new sum (Abraham born 292 years after Flood) but adds up a sequence of x born when y was z years old which with normal mathematics come closer to LXX, though, like Roman Martyrology, lacking II Cainaan.

CMI having one article giving side by side, but another one arguing against LXX, here are Lita Cosner and Robert Carter:

Is the Septuagint a superior text for the Genesis genealogies?
by Lita Cosner, Robert Carter | Published: 25 September 2018 (GMT+10)

And here is my response to them:

Creation vs. Evolution : Resp. to Carter / Cosner : In the Lifetime of Josephus

5066 years old - a little more than the ages implied by Roman Martyrology for Flood, 2957 BC, clearly less than Syncellus' date.

6:32 "in salted ground"

Supposing seas were salty prior to Flood as opposed to starting to get salty then but slowly getting much saltier.

6:40 And For Koalas arriving in Australia we have the Sahul Sunda strait as a fairly narrow one. In the post-Flood ice age.

And the "no trees survived the Flood" would have to mean "anywhere at all" in order for your argument to make sense.

I have a somewhat other Flood model, not denying streams where heavy boulders were carried away 500 km, but arguing that calmer conditions also occurred.

I think you have made an argument Robert Carter's Flood Model as part of his reply to why Neanderthals had to be post-Flood, may have been wrong.

HGL's F.B. writings : Carter's Notification on His Post

8:03 As for Old Tjikko, I dealt with "him" in Swedish.

På Svenska og på Dansk på Antimodernism : Huru gammal är Old Tjikko?

I got "him" to be somewhere like 2688 / 2733 BC (probably going on a Syncellus based table, or before I identified Göbekli Tepe as Babel).

Key to "8000 years old" is, it's carbon date, not dendrochronology, and it's from when carbon 14 level was lower than now. Rising from 49.279 to 56.3215 pmC.

Obviously, Göbekli Tepe with contemporaries can't show records of a global Flood if that is Babel.

"13 000 years ago" (if a carbon date) = before GT, towards end of Noah's life.

The estimate of "at least 80 000 years old" if not carbon dated at all for the cloned aspen is not chronologically checkable, but if involving carbon dates would involve aspen surviving flood via clones.

9:15 The article you are reading perhaps doesn't show how hazy some matches are on that oak and pine sequence, notably on some bottlenecks with few materials involved?

9:31 if we get carbon dates or other indications of ice age involved in the older tree material, that was happening after the Flood.

deal with - Specimen Point? No, Specimen Ridge:

11:39 So, "each" forest had oldest trees 500 years?

This is a bit funny, if a process of new growth just happened again and again, it is more probably if we see different segments of same trees at different levels, arguing the forest was 500 years old in the time when the Flood involved unprecedented and thereafter unmatched volcanic activity.

12:50 Or, since root systems have been found at higher levels, rather, trees were shoved on top of earlier ones by either lava streams or Flood water dynamics.

A classic in Creationist argument is floating logmats and this time add, interacted many times with lava.

13:50 Top of a trunk directly under roots of another tree?

Lower tree above that trunk level cut off by Flood water, higher tree then moved in with thick lava.

12:27 As for 55 million years ago, is it dated by the lava typical method?


My hunch is, lava cooled very quickly that first layer, with lots of cold Flood water above it, trapping lots of excess argon, and possibly washing off some of the potassium too.

12:36 Yes, I throw out the manmade mythology of reliable lava dates.

15:05 Some fish mixed in?

In land biota far from coasts of pre-Flood world, no. Not because no fish material could have reached there, but because when it did, it would no longer be recognisable.

If a large boulder carried 500 km is arriving half diameter every direction, any skeleton moved that far would have been ground to dust.

This supports my deviation from the CMI "standard" model.

It also supports my work on replacing "geological column" with "pre-Flood geography". Based on what biota are involved.

15:56 I sense a very ugly attack on YEC parents and private schools.

16:33 The Disney sequence has Noah and family drafting animal beneficairies of Ark.

I'd rather suspect some went there for "work experience" in some socialist scheme for the unemployed and left (and eventually drowned) when they got job elsewhere.

In Swedish there was a time it would have been called ALU-jobb.


A dole for gaining work experience.

And on this or another video, you mentioned "Noah and three sons with stone age technology".

This is a bit like "Versailles and St Paul's Cathedral couldn't have been built in some decades of 17th/18th C, Chingachgook and Natty Bumppo had no technology for that".

Since, I think when we see Neanderthals, and Cro-Magnons living among them, we see sth like the Chingachgooks and Natty Bumpoos of back before the Flood. Henoch in Nod East of Eden is not yet found, and may never be so. Probably too much post-Flood Himalayas over it.

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