Wednesday, March 4, 2020

Professor Dave Explains Challenged Kent Hovind in Another Way

A Challenge For Mr. Kent Hovind
14.II.2020 | Professor Dave Explains


2:03 What is a kind? - transferred to Question III

2:15 sth, as you are a chemist, when did Miller Urey conditions last time produce phospholipids?

I mean, today, phospholipids are produced in living organisms plus in labs. And they are very useful as cell membranes, you know.

The FIVE questions

Question I

Hans-Georg Lundahl
4:47 Q 1
  • a) 1 Kings 7:23

    Two possibilities "30 cubits and some" LXX reading (If the measuring string had had knots every single cubit, it would have been 31 cubits and some, but one could imagine it was tied in knots every 5 cubits). OR - the cylindric object physically has more than one cylindric shape.

    String measures diameter of outermost cylinder, that of the rim's outside, since that is a way of putting it on the top. String then measures a somewhat more interior cylinder below the rim, as this is a way of getting the string around the cylinder.

    Pi is the constant between diameter and circumference of SAME circle, not of two concentric ones.

  • b) Leviticus 25:44 Idolaters around having merited death penalty and mission not being a thing before Matthew 28, imposing perpetual slavery on some was not an offense against still held rights.

    People could also sell themselves for food, which Christian nations of late have rightly forbidden under 1 Corinthians 7:23 bc of Christians being bought by Christ's blood.

    Finally, a person born in slavery could stay in slavery, which is somewhat less onerous than people in prison not getting to make or raise children. And about equal to wage slaves' children usually staying wage slaves.

Professor Dave Explains
Cool story, bro! I don't agree with your interpretation. In fact, they reek of desperation.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
  • c) Numbers 31:17 was God meting out a death penalty over all adults of certain cities. The killing of their children can be seen as a mercy killing, God preferring their dying over that many "CPS" cases or slaves.

    In any case, this was a "once only" order, about a situation which existed right before the Israelite invasion of Canaan, and did not apply finally to all of its cities.

    Oh, sorry, the ones where virgins and children were spared was another somewhat less guilty class.

The validity of these passages does not depend on modern relevance.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
​@Professor Dave Explains I missed your response after first two, would you mind specifying which one is especially desperate to you?

You may include the lower ones as well, if you like.

B U T be specific as to what you object to as "desperate".

Capt'Wes Starwind
@Hans-Georg Lundahl So you do not understand how π is used and you are trying to justify slavery?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Capt'Wes Starwind If you think two concentric circles can be related so that diameter of outer times π equals circumference of inner, you are the one not understanding π.

Slavery or servitude is justified in some cases, and if you think otherwise, you don't need to attack the Bible before you have attacked psychiatry, prisons and school compulsion, not forgetting CPS.

Question II
6:12 Q 2) added information, and in mammals polyploidy, as in added chromosome numbers in the karyotype, are both of them impossible.

Tetraploidy is not necessarily impossible in plants or amphibians, but it is in mammals. Triploid creatures are either infertile or self fertilising females (which occurs among fish and lizards). Non-mosaical polyploidy is lethal, as are non-mosaical trisomy 1 and 3 (trisomy 2 might not occur), in humans, and this would be typical for mammals in several different orders, not just primates.

Production of a new cell type is so slow it cannot have been observed. It is also an improbability of the order of a hurricane assembling a car.

Evolutionists have, excluding nerve cells, considered one new cell type was produced every 3 million years in the human ancestry. Ergo, not observed, and probably because impossible.

Is DNA sufficiently molecular level for you?

Fine, I read up on the blind fish in a cave, and of 10 genes, 2 are damaged. If it takes 10 genes to function well, to make a functional cornea (it was not about lense!) this means cornea coming by chance mutation is impossible.

Question III

Hans-Georg Lundahl
2:03 What is a kind?

I would say any taxonomic level from subfamily to order, depending on the kind.

I do not know if hedgehogs are a kind of their own or share a kind with gymnures, I suspect the latter. One mutation that makes the spines softer (affects the keratin production) would likely turn a hedgehog into "some kind of" (!) gymnure.

Probably this happened once and other mutations accumulated on the gymnure or the hedgehog side. Or both.

Either way, this would make 10 genera and 25 species of hedgehogs and gymnures one kind. Which in this case then coincides with taxonomic level family.

Professor Dave Explains
Oh, so kind means whatever the fuck you want in any given instant? Yeah, that sounds about right for Kent too. You're both stupid.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
6:43 Q 3 - done above with the kind that is erinac... sth.

I have not checked on karyotypes, since these are not given on wiki fact boxes, though they could. But I am presuming all the way down, that any difference in number of chromosomes is by reducing two pairs into one pair by fusion. No fission allowed.

I am also presuming all hedgehogs and gymnures share same or very comparable cell types. No new cell type allowed.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Professor Dave Explains "Oh, so kind means whatever the fuck you want in any given instant?"

No. Kind would never be as broad as a whole kingdom and normally never as narrow as species either. As to intermediates, I don't think mammalian kinds ever go broader than order, which is more than I can promise for dinosaur kinds.

A kind is also monophyletic.

You can if you like pretend that "order" and "family" are not just different levels of same real or presumed phylum, but that the difference of level has a criterium constant over very different phyla, so that hedgehogs and canines, Erinaceidae and canids, Carnivora and Eulipotyphla (had to look some up) are, pair by pair, same level by same criterium. And one easy to apply.

Good luck.

As long as you don't, I'll assume that they are considered the same levels on the criterium of number of lower levels beneath them. Which is accidental to how many branches and sub-branches and sub-sub-branches a kind diverged into.

I answered some more before seeing you had answered, so look up previous comments of mine too.

Question IV
7:13 Q4
  • a) many strictly localised species are downgraded compared to ancestors, like ice bears who need cold and some other conditions prevailing in the arctic. If they mate with grizzly bears, the hybrid is somewhat upgraded in adaptability.
  • b) lost landbridges like Atlantis between South America and Africa and like lands no longer over sea after ice age at Sahul Sunda.
  • c) answered in previous.
  • d) inhospitable climates presumes either deserts already existed - Sahara is considered desertified since "5,400 years ago" according to wiki, but that would correspond to a carbon date which is closer to Abraham's times. This means, it was not there while kinds from the ark were crossing by. As to "nothing to eat but each other" we have rapid reproduction of some, we have fish, we have plants, we have just after the Flood presumably a lot of drowned carcasses for scavenging.
  • e) the fossils from the Flood are all over the "strata" - in any place for a pre-Flood land usually only one stratum is fossil bearing, but it has very diverse designations, but in pre-Flood seas there can be more strata - I checked by the way, so do some checking before you answer this.

    Oh, and modern fossils usually don't exist, because rapid burial is fairly rare. Flood event was fairly unique in this way.

    • f i) check how many persons a couple can have as children, and then add the fact these people were living longer and were not competing with other populations
    • f ij) founder effect
    • f iij) we are in so far as we belong to one race rather than being half caste, most of us, if you mean why we aren't idiots, you are confusing inbreeding with old age in mothers, which is main factor for trisomy 21 and a few more trisomies that aren't lethal, if you mean why we don't all have genetic diseases with recessive genes, this is because these arose well after Noah's time, except inability to synthesise vitamin C, which is common to us all, and because a later and greater overall population has allowed less inbreeding in the genealogical sense of this word since these arose.

Question V
Q 5 is not very important to me, but the ideology behind it is.

It presupposes that universities are a community and new members of this supposedly single community get in through cooptation ... no, the first universities were founded by the Catholic Church with privileges from either Pope or Emperor, and since then there have been religious and other schisms which allow for several parallel communities of universities, like the free university of Lublin was not a Communist state university and like the Freie Universität Berlin was not the part time Communist run Humboldt-Universität, and before that we had a divergence between Catholic and Protestant Universities which was very important in the 16th and 17th CC.

The charge "diploma mill" doesn't mean much.

And as my own studies were at a university you probably consider accredited and as I do not claim a title like PhD or even PhMag, I really have no personal stake in this one.

[Kent's Alma Mater is a] "shack in a parking lot"

Means nothing, Paris and Oxford Universities started out without fine buildings, by students and their professors meeting in the street after students had been begging to pay the tutorial which the professor collected in his hat (this changed already in the Middle Ages, but this is how it started).

Kent Hovind "did not take any classes"

I am fairly sure both my and your universities offer courses over correspondence. I took mine in class by the way.

Kent Hovind "did not do any research"

Unfortunately false, since his research on the history of ideas behind evolution ideology does include false charges against both Greek Philosophers and Church Fathers.

"proven liar"

Is now a charge that can be held against you, since all of your question 5 has been a lie attacking the idea of independent universities as much as Kent Hovind.

"why should anyone believe anything [x] say[s], when [x is] a proven liar"

Has it occurred to you that argument and self description are two very different subjects when it comes to someone's personal reliability being involved in believing his point?

That's why I bother about your arguments while you seem ... moderately honest.

End, to his challenge

9:13 I would propose you take a written debate, unmoderated, BUT where you cite what you are answering, and I would be glad to provide the space under one or perhaps 5 posts on one of my blogs.

Please tell me if this is OK with you and then contact Kent who could also tell me if he likes it.

Then you can both link to that written debate, and you can make readings aloud from it on each channel.

Apart from that, his old idea of one debate but two videos are uploaded, one per channel, is not bad, if you can arrange it without me.

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