Debate with Paul Myers · Paulogia also doesn't get what is reasonable evidence for 1st C events · Holy Koolaid attacked Bible History with HolyKoolaid Tries to Back Up his Attack Against Exodus · Paulogia took on the Tower
Nothing Fails Like Bible History 4
2.III.2020 | HolyKoolaid
- 2:25 He's already wrong on "spreads over 3000 years" ... early dynastic, mis-dated to 3000 BC and some earlier would actually be from Abraham's time and he was born 2015 BC.
Just today I found confirmation for Genesis 12. Remember, reed mats from chalcolithic of En-Gedi supporting a story in Genesis 14, which would have happened c. whan Abraham was 80, i e c. 1935 BC, these reed mats have been carbon dated to 3500 BC.
Now, here is the thing, on wiki for Sahara, I found that desertification happened 5400 years ago - 5400 minus 2000 = 3400 BC, meaning carbon dated 3400 BC. A desertification of Sahara obviously fits drought conditions which could be behind Genesis 12:10 And there came a famine in the country; and Abram went down into Egypt, to sojourn there: for the famine was very grievous in the land.
- A) Both Holy Land and what is now Sahara has a drought;
- B) Egypt hasn't, because Egypt has the Nile.
- 3:01 It so happens, you seem to interpret "missing a piece of a papyrus" as we have most pieces of if not most papyri at least of papyri representing most important events. WRONG.
You interpret "missing a nose on a statue" as we still have statues of most important people. WRONG.
You seem to interpret "missing a tomb" as we still have tombs of half the vizeers and all the pharaos with very few exceptions.
I'll go back a bit and see the title of the book ... Chris Naunton, Searching for the Lost Tombs of Egypt
Now I'll go to Amazon ...
Chris Naunton, Searching for the Lost Tombs of Egypt
Hardcover: 224 pages
About the Author
Dr Chris Naunton is an Egyptologist, writer and broadcaster. An expert on Egypt in the first millennium BC and the history of Egyptology, he has published extensively on both subjects, and has presented numerous related television documentaries, including Tutankhamun: The Mystery of the Burnt Mummy (2013) and King Tut’s Tomb: The Hidden Chamber (2016). He worked for many years at the Egypt Exploration Society, London, acting as its Director between 2012 and 2016. In 2015 he was elected President of the International Association of Egyptologists and in 2016 he became Director of the Robert Anderson Trust, a charity that provides support for young scholars visiting London to further their studies and research.
Now I'll look into the preview:
3:rd dynasty - step pyramid
4:th dynasty - Khufu
pyramids default for pharaos, 4:th, 5:th, 6:th
"There seems to have been something of a hiatus during the succeeding 7th to 11th Dynasties, but the practise was revived in the 11th Dynasty, under Mentuhotep II Nebhepetre, and continued into the 13th."
So, 5 or 4 and a half dynasties are missing?
Even more, the dynasties where some Creationists including me would put Exodus are NOT missing?
Amenemhet IV has a tomb in a pyramid, but it's empty. Anne Habermehl considers he is Pharao of the Exodus (who drowned and whose body was never found). Someone cited on CMI, and I believe him, rather consider him as Moses - who quit the royal court at age 40, but could have been recognised as Pharao before that age.
But if you actually read "Searching for the Lost Tombs of Egypt" I think - despite some chapters being few and dedicated to just very famous tombs - that most tombs of most Pharaos are missing. Trent Horn understated his case.
- 4:15 Meticulous record keepers? Millions of artefacts that we have?
We have about 7 million artefacts in 56 museums, so, most of these are too well catalogued to give hope of lots of new Egyptian records.
Source, the numbers for the "Museum collections of over 1,000 Ancient Egyptian artifacts" on this article:
Plus eliminating everything except numerals, and adding plus signs and using online calculator and rounding.
- 4:25 Ipuwer papyrus is conclusive both in giving a somewhat downscaled version of Ten Plagues and in admitting that after this, there was no Egyptian army resisting the Hyksos - which allows the interpretation at least there was no Egyptian army at all, since it had all drowned in the Red Sea.
- 5:48 Plenty of records about these towns? So we should expect to find evidence of the Jewish residence somewhere?
Or you making this up on the spot or do you have something specific in mind?
- 7:42 Finkelstein's dictum about nomads wasn't restricted to small groups.
If 20 nomads leave 0 evidence, 20 000 or 2 000 000 can also leave precisely 0 evidence behind.
- 7:49 Did the Israelites during the Exodus use pots? You basically claim there is Biblical evidence for it. So, let's investigate.
In the OT of Douay Rheims, the word "pots" is used 9 times.
"pots" - OT - 9 verses found, which contain this word.
7 are after the books of Moses, and the two that are in, one refers to back in Egypt before the Exodus, one to a law, not to a fact during the wandering.
Ah, ok, there is a definite point here:
Numbers 11:7-8 A Now the manna was like coriander seed, of the colour of bdellium. And the people went about, and gathering it, ground it in a mill, or beat it in a mortar, and boiled it in a pot, and made cakes thereof of the taste of bread tempered with oil.
Now, the argument I would give is, miraculously, the pots were not worn out and were therefore not discarded during the desert wandering.
And here is my support for that:
He hath brought you forty years through the desert: your garments are not worn out, neither are the shoes of your feet consumed with age.
Part of your evidence are also temple vessels, which would have been extra well taken care of and definitely not thrown away in the desert after less than 40 years' use. Numbers 4:7 for example.
- 7:51 4000 years old = 2000 BC
= carbon dated 2000 BC
During the Hebrew stay in Egypt, presumably.
- 9:20 How many ox bones or sheep bones from 2000 years ago do you find in the desert?
9:36 - can last for thousands of years doesn't mean it usually does.
Btw, 10 700 years old = 8 700 BC = carbon dated 8 700 BC = real a bit before 2556 BC.
9:47 Yes, it is unrealistic.
- 9:52 "during the time of the Exodus" ....
"For three centuries, Egyptians ruled the land of Canaan. Armies of chariots and 10,000 foot soldiers under the pharaoh Thutmose III thundered through Gaza and defeated a coalition of Canaanite chiefdoms at Megiddo, in what is now northern Israel, in 1458 B.C."
Archaeology : Egypt’s Final Redoubt in Canaan
The fiery end of the last Egyptian colony
By ROGER ATWOOD July/August 2017
That would have been under the Judges' period (Joshua's conquest is in 1470 BC, and this would seem to be carbon date - as per Kenyon - 1550 BC), plus, one more, both Gaza and Megiddo are West of the West Bank, in the West of Israel ...
11:46 Battle of Kadesh 1274 BC ... arguably somewhat later, but still before Troy fell, which is before King David's Kingdom.
More to the point, Egyptians were strengthening Canaanites who were in fact much of the time ruling over Israelites during the period.
11:40 Walking distance away ... sure. But exactly how narrow is the walk and exactly how many army men can walk side by side the narrow parts both sides of Sinai?
- 12:38 Trent Horn admits too much. He says he doesn't even know if modern Egypt has as many as 12 million.
2017 census cited on wiki : 94 798 827
I would more like contest the rabbi who claimed 80 % of Israelites stayed behind ...
- 14:43 Holy Koolaid gets it more correct than Trent Horn ... elep in context of Numbers 1, as given by arithmetic, should mean "1000" and not "clan".
Catholic Answers banned me from their forum for being YEC and Geocentric, well, looks like they need to start regretting it.
15:26 Where exactly does it say "even more stayed behind"?
While I caution against Got Questions? as per their Protestantism, they state:
"We have no reason to believe that any of the Israelites stayed behind in Egypt, so we can safely say that 2.4 million is the approximate number of Hebrews who left Egypt in the exodus."
Got Questions? How many Israelites left Egypt in the exodus?
If the Bible had stated even more stayed behind, the site would have agreed with that.
- 15:58 In your parallel, there is not just absence of evidence, there is absence of very reasonably expected evidence, provided the thing happened.
What we do not agree is that your expectation of finding physical evidence for Israelites in Sinai is reasonable, for instance as reasonable as the insurance agent's expectation of finding the car in a smashed state after it had been crushed.
- 16:28 For ten plagues, we have Ipuwer papyrus.
For a drowned pharao we have either an Amenemhet IV with no body in the tomb (Anne Habermehl's theory) or an even later pharao with no tomb found at all (end of 13th dynasty).
For Israelites living in Egypt, we also do have some evidence:
CMI : Patterns of evidence: Exodus. A review
by Gary Bates | Published: 15 January 2015 (GMT+10)
Shame that a Catholic, or supposed such, like Trent Horn misses this and leaves this research for Protestants ...