Saturday, November 27, 2021

Two Videos with Some Relation to Sedevacantism and Orthopapism

In the first one, the subject is directly brought up:

Is Sedevacantism really Untenable? (Response to Peter Kwasniewski)*
17th Nov. 2021 | Defeat Modernism*

* Vidéo non disponible
Cette vidéo n'est plus disponible, car le compte YouTube associé a été clôturé.

Account closed, video not available ....

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I have no time immediately to watch the whole hour.

I would like to ask, not if it is untenable that "Pope Emeritus Benedict" and "Pope Francis" are not Popes, but whether it is tenable that the sedevacancy lasts to this day ... 1958 to 2021, some would say ... close to the time Judaea was in Babylon or Popes were in Avignon (even if that latter was only half as bad as Heretical Antipopes).

If Pius XII sinned against the faith in 1950 or 1951 or both and lost papacy, even past the Avignon timespan.

There are guys who claim to be validly elected popes. Have you looked at them?

Ab Fide Fidelis
Peaceful Universal Acceptance guarantees the legitimacy of someone as Pope. All bishops accepted John XXIII onward. No single bishop recognized your position until 1981. According to Leo XII in Pastoris Aeterni, the lack of bishops it is the proof that this position is schismatic.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis What kind of document is Pastoris Aeterni? On papal encyclicals I couldn't find it, in documentatio catholica I found a document in Italian, and I cannot quickly skim it through, but you may tell me what paragraph if you want to.

Up to 1981? You forget archbishop Thuc. In 1976 he consecrated the future claimant "Gregorio XVII" as bishop.

And you forget there has been no such peaceful acceptance by all bishops since in fact 1950, when bishop Duarte Costa considered Pius XII had lost his papacy.

The current pope, Michael, by civil name David Bawden, 21 years after his election received episcopal orders from precisely the Duarte Costa line.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
added later
@Ab Fide Fidelis I searched out Pastoris Aeterni and found, a probably shortened version in French.

In it, I could not find "Peaceful Universal Acceptance guarantees the legitimacy of someone as Pope," stated in those words.

He did indeed state that the lack of bishops for them spoke against the Little Church, but he did not define a set time limit after which this is so. Obviously, some lack of bishops temporarily doesn't disqualify a section of the true Church.

According to Pope Michael, the bishops who acted without admitting him prior to his election were not in the same position as schismatics now, defying the authority of an already elected Pope - including presumably those who, consecrated before the change of the Pontifical, were not too eager to follow out all the hints of new ways up to the consummation in what amounts to apostasy. Indeed, the pseudo-papacy has worsened since the anti-fundamentalist decisions in first half of the nineties, and that was after they had become schismatics against Pope Michael.

Note, all of above was debated before I came to even start the video. Here are some updates after that:

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl Did you also looed at Eximia Nos Laetitia ? The problem is that if you lack all bishops and all priests (as it happened for John XXIII and Paul VI), then you can't go nowhere to receive Sacrements.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis You didn't mention Eximia Nos Laetitia before, what Pope?

Under "J-XXIII" and "P-VI" there were priests left who were resisting them.

+ @Ab Fide Fidelis I note, both Pastoris Aeterni by Leo XII and Eximia Nos Laetitia by Leo XIII take a more respectful tone to Little Church than you do to Sedes, this after only a quick look at the latter.

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl In 1960, no single priest resisted them. And you'll need a bishop because how would you receive Sacrement of Confirmation ?

+ @Hans-Georg Lundahl So what ? I don't want to be disrespectful towards them. I only want show you that they are mistaken and why.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis In 1960, the doctrinal need for resistance was very low key compared to now.

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl So what ? You were still deprived of bishops recognizing you as Catholic.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis Not really. People like Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga had support from some bishops allowing them spaces for Mass and confirmation as their faithful. Only later did the tone get much harsher and then sedes had bishops.

Since 1990, we have a bishop of Rome (in Topeka) who recognises Wojtyla, Ratzinger and Bergoglio are not and were not Popes.

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl Please prove that bishops recognized Joaquin y Arriaga. Also, in 1964 and 1965, there were no sede priests and no single sede bishop. Finally, Y Arriaga recognized John XXIII and Paul VI as valid Popes, but he thinks that the latter lost his pontificate. Antipope Michael isn't a bishop.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis I did not say bishops recognised Arriaga as being right.

I said they took a less stringent stand.

That Paul VI lost his pontificate is a possibility - it's one that Pius XII did so too.

Whatever you believe about the 1990 conclave, Pope Michael should by those not recognising him as such, since 2011, or Church year 2012, since Gaudete weekend, be adressed as "bishop Bawden" - he received first priesthood on Saturday and then episcopate on the Lord's Day from the vagante bishop Bob Biarnesen. He in turn ultimately had it from Duarte Costa.

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl First, Arriaga recognized John XXIII and Paul VI as Popes (Paul VI lost his pontificate in 1965 according to him). This is not what all sede bishops think. Moreover, Michael isn't a bishop. What bishop recognizes Michael as Pope ?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis Your last question : Bob Biarnesen with succession from Duarte Costa and who handed it on, with another bishop reconciled to him, to him, to His Holiness.

Discrepancies on when Vatican II Sect became an anti-Church may depend on how seriously one takes statements like "Muslims worship the one true God" or simply incomplete informations.

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl The fact that Muslims worship God has also been formuled by Saint Gregory VIII to the king of Mauritania.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis what was his exact wording?

Ab Fide Fidelis
@Hans-Georg Lundahl "Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. You and we owe this charity to ourselves especially because we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and ruler of this world."

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Ab Fide Fidelis I think one key difference is, there is no "along with us" here.

As to second one, one commenter Michael Ciccone, brought it up, see "thread II":

NEWSFLASH: Exorcist Fr. Ripperger Says Devil Admitted "Our Time is Running Short" During Exorcism!
23rd Nov. 2021 | The Frontline TV

1:22 Noting Fr. Ripperger has the good sense to get his tobacco smoke through a pipe with a long mouthpiece!

While smoking, that kind of pipe was among my favourites - or a pipe of that kind, rather.


Michael Ciccone
Why doesn't this venerable priest reprimand the Vatican in regards to PANCHAMAMMA idol worship at the Vatican October2019? And Holy Euchsrist to pro abortion. RC politicians as well?

Fr Ripperger would recognise that scandal is a sin. Scandal is doing or saying what would cause others to sin. Talking about heretical people too much can lead people to lose faith, to despair, to become presumptuous about their salvation, etc. It's like the admonition not to pull the weeds, lest the wheat be damaged. It's always better to teach the faith and morals, and to warn against personal sins and heresies. Addressing heretical individuals publicly is the responsibility of the bishops. In terms of the pacapapa... turn off the news and revise your catechism, then pray.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@mar what about looking around if there is a real Pope who's orthodox?

@Hans-Georg Lundahl waste of time, because whether you find him, or find none, it won't make any difference to the state of your soul. Imagine children constantly interested in the sins and faults of their parents, and comparing them to other people's parents. Can that in any way help the kids themselves grow in holiness?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@mar I read a Nancy Drew.

In The Bungalow Mystery, one orphan Laura is interested in the behaviour of what purports to be her legal guardian ... if she hadn't been, she might not have saved the real one.

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