Thursday, November 20, 2008

Contra Monty Collier - De libero arbitrio:

(wherein only Monty and Haydock are set to block quotes, Bible quotes in bold)

General: "worketh all things according to the council of his will" - therein, as argues St Thomas, condemning Bradwardine (of physics and logarithmic fame) and John Calvin (a good astronomer, I admit) in advance: if it is the council of God's will, that a human decision be taken by real free will, then it is done so. If it is the council of God's will to lay a matter open to a real human choice, then it is done so. The predestination of Jacob was helped by the prayers of Rebecca, without which he would not even have been born.

Proverbs 29:26
Monty Collier report:
"The Judgement of every man cometh from the Lord"
"Many seek the face of the prince: but the judgment of every one cometh forth from the Lord."

Monty Collier report:
"The King's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: He turneth it whithersoever He will."
"As the divisions of waters, so the heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord: whithersoever he will he shall turn it."

If the greatest of rulers ... have not free will, what about the rest of us? (Monty Collier)

Well, does not exactly state they have no free will, but that their decisions - probably their decisions affecting others! - are determined ... for those others, probably.

"The preparations of the heart in man and the answer of the tongue is from the Lord" (Monty Collier)
"It is the part of man to prepare the soul: and of the Lord to govern the tongue." (Douay-Rheims)

Comment: "It is the part of man"... That is, a man should prepare in his heart and soul what he is to say: but after all, it must be the Lord that must govern his tongue, to speak to the purpose. Not that we can think any thing of good without God's grace; but that after we have (with God's grace) thought and prepared within our souls what we would speak, if God does not govern our tongue, we shall not succeed in what we speak.

Cf verse 3: "Lay open thy works to the Lord: and thy thoughts shall be directed."

Monty Collier argues this shows that man's will is not independent of God, everything that exists is dependent of God. Quite so. We believers in freewill do not state that human and previous to fall or after salvation free will is independent from God, but that there is a dependent since created faculty that nevertheless is a real faculty of free will.

"For in him we live, and move, and have our being." - ACTS 17:28 - "For in him we live, and move, and are; as some also of your own poets said: For we are also his offspring."

On to Ephesians:
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will." 1:11 "In whom we also are called by lot, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will."

Syllogism by Monty Collier:
1) all things are predestinated by God

[does not literally say so!]
2) the will of man is something
3) therefore the will of man is predestinated by God

[are we talking substances or qualities predestinated to exist or events including will-choices predestinated to occur? the will of man, as a quality of his soul, is predestined to exist, yes, but does this mean that this will-choice of this man or that will-choice of that man are predestined to be the choices they are? no]
4) if man's will is predestinated, then man does not have free-will

["does not have free-will" it would mean only by simultaneous occurrence of a) his choices being predestined by God and b) him not having asked God to predestine his choices for the best]
5) man's will is predestinated

[to exist, certainly yes, to decide the right thing, insofar as himself or another sufficiently prayed God to predestinate the actual choice or choices, to decide the wrong thing, certainly no]
6) therefore, man does not have free-will

[does not follow if previous qualifications are allowed]

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