Saturday, December 16, 2017

Can Catholics and Protestants be Compared to Sunni and Shia? No. (Quora)

Is the Sunni/Shia split in Islam comparable in any way to the Protestant/Catholic split in Christianity?

Own answer

Answer requested
by Michelle Andrade

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Studied religions as curious parallels and contrasts to Xtian faith since 9, 10?
Answered 6m ago
“Is the Sunni/Shia split in Islam comparable in any way to the Protestant/Catholic split in Christianity?”

I’d rather compare Protestants to the Drooz.

As for Sunni/Shia, two things:

  • it is way earlier than Catholic / Orthodox split, nearly directly after death of their prophet, while our “counterpart” happened more than 1000 years after Christ’s Ascension;
  • but in other ways it is comparable to Catholic / Orthodox insofar as these splits have both sides left with an impression of being the real traditionalists, and other side as pseudo-traditionalists. With Drooz and Protestants, on the other hand, you have one side clearly overtly revolutionary, even if the Drooz claim a new revelation from God (like Montanists) and the Protestants claim to be either restoring an earlier disappeared version or continuing a kind of “Masonic” version of its “secret survival.”

Other answer
which I disagree with and argue against:

Joseph Boyle
Answered Aug 20, 2015
Yes. One has an ordained hierarchy stretching back continuously to the founder. One emphasizes the sacred texts and community consensus.

Julie Kelemen
Aug 20, 2015
Do you mean that for each duo, one emphasizes scripture alone (Protestants & Sunnis) while the other also accepts community consensus (Catholics & Shia)?

Joseph Boyle
Aug 20, 2015
I mean that many Protestants/Sunnis will emphasize community consensus over historically succeeded leaders.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
34 min ago
Well, in that case you are getting historical Sunni wrong.

The Sunni and Shia split is over which type of historical succession of leaders is needed, Shia wanting a dynastic one of “Imam’s” and after a certain time lacking that (a bit like Petite Église or Staroviertsy lacking bishops), Sunni wanting elective Kaleephs.

Present day Sunni are in a way influenced by Saudi Wahhabism which takes a cue from Protestant “Scripture alone”, and this because the last either Kaleeph or quasi Kaleeph, Abdulmejid II, died in 1924 (he was of the Sultan dynasty of Ottoman Empire, but unlike predecessors he was only Kaleeph, not Sultan)*.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Just now

Correction to previous : Abdulmejid II didn’t die but go to exile in 1924. He died in 1944.*

* Vivat vicipaedia!

Joseph Boyle
18m ago
Caliphate was largely a dead theory after the Abbasids and Fatimids lost power, and was more about political leadership than religious scholarship.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Just now
Possible, but Sunnis have looked back on it.

Sunnis still do.

In bookshops in Paris you find “the decisions of the enlightened Caleephs”.

A bit like Sedevacantists look back to Popes like Pius XI or St Pius X.

Joseph Boyle
Just now
This is not mainstream.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Just now
Ah? Perhaps because Wahhabism has tended to become so, since 1924?

Other question
on the two different religions in general, not their subdivisions:

Why do people say Allah and God are one and the same?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Self Employed at Writer and Composer
Answered just now
Which Allah?

If in an Arabic Bible “in the beginning Allah created the Heaven and the Earth” and Jesus is “the only begotten Son of Allah”, obviously Allah is God, because Allah is the usual Arabic word for God.

Also, some Muslims will translate the Shahada as saying Mohammed is the “Apostle of God”.

The God of the Quran and the God of the Bible need not be the same God, as in Arabic they need not be the same Allah. They can be as different from each other as each is from the God of Stoicism or of Deism.

Those who say they are one and the same are probably wrong. The Quranic deity shares quite a lot of the story line with the Biblical true God, but there are contradictions between them too and there is NOT a clear identity of personal description of God. For instance, while “all of the ninety nine names of Allah” (the Quranic one) are from the Bible, the word “love” (also very clearly a name of God in the Bible) is not one of them.

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