The weird "Social Credit" movement
15.II.2020 | J.J. McCullough
- mr ms paint
- Real SoCred hasn't been tried yet.
- LOL! Rather than "experiment" with society, let's see what individuals can do with the hands of their government off them...yeah, great!
- Matthew Furlani
More like terrifying and dystopian jj.... lmao
- James Watson
- Yeah, yeah, just like every political idea.
- William Scott
- James Watson r/whooosh
- Call Me Jahta
- One word China
- Korewa Krusader
- Yes, literally correct.
- Adam Smith
- LOL Douglasism sounds alot like many socialist nations: banks are evil, let's have the government set up price controls, and let's give everyone free money for doing nothing
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @Adam Smith "many socialist nations: banks are evil,"
Some other nations came to that conclusion as well.
"let's have the government set up price controls,"
Diocletian's Maximum Decree was appreciated after he was gone by CHristians who didn't like other aspects of his reign.
"and let's give everyone free money for doing nothing"
Exactly WHAT socialist country ever did that?
- Henry C
- This whole thing reminds of Technocracy Inc. which existed around the same time in the US. It advocated the establishment of a board of scientific and industrial leaders to guide the country out of the depression. It wanted to establish a 4-hour work day as well and a system that used energy as money.
Needless to say, they had even less success then Social Credit and it died an unceremonious death.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @Henry C "It advocated the establishment of a board of scientific and industrial leaders"
What I know of the Social Credit movement so far is very different from that, so, I'd really like to see the video with headphones (as yet no subtitles and have no headphones here) and see what J. J. McCullough has to add to the picture, if anything.
I may add, what I knew previous to seeing the video was basically its journalism, Louis Even and Michael Journal.
- Joakim von Anka
- I had only an admittedly cursory look at SoC, but I came under the distinct impression it was mostly a lack of understanding the logic behind Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.
// let's see what individuals can do with the hands of their government off them...yeah, great!//
I do not think that Clever Plan should be tried again. Better to shoot anyone who even thinks about that too loud.
The last person who suggested that to me IRL turned out to have several convictions for DUI.
Letting such persons do as they please - as opposed to making damn sure they do nothing they are not ORDERED to do - does not sound as very sensible.
- It is applied right know in Argentina. The fixed prices are called "precios cuidados" and they get controlled in supermarkets. The government has to authorize any increase of prices in utilities or fuel also
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @agustin20091 Viva Perón!
@Joakim von Anka "The last person who suggested that to me IRL turned out to have several convictions for DUI."
Driving Under Influence?
You suggest people who have that should "do nothing they are not ORDERED to do" - did I get that correct?
Lifelong slavery for offenses that should just imply loss of drivers' licence?
I don't think letting people like you do as you please with other people is a very sensible plan.
Also, taking "the last person who suggested that to" you "IRL" as opposed to all others who did so beore in real life or before or after on the web would imply some heavy pushing of the anecdotic in a very biassed way.
You did the check-up about his DUI convictions how precisely?
- Joakim von Anka
- @Hans-Georg Lundahl It rather soiunds like you have some kind of problem with the concept of unconditional compliance with Rules and Regulations. Which leads us to the inferment that you canot be relied upon to follow rules PERFECTLY, does it not? Which leads us to the supposition that you are a clear and present danger to the health and safety, does it not?
By DUI, one wilfully and knowingly endangers others. Explain to me how a POS who does so even deserve to continue living.
Do you duty, demand your right.
Obviously, that means ZERO rights for those who do not do their duty.
//Lifelong slavery for offenses t//
Slavery implies the ownership of one human by another. Where precisely did I argue for that?
//You suggest people who have that should "do nothing they are not ORDERED to do" - did I get that correct?//
That seems like a rather sensible precaution since they have been proven to be incapable of following rules of their own volition.
Do you actually think Rulebreakers even deserve to continue draw oxygen? I don't.
//lso, taking "the last person who suggested that to" you "IRL" as opposed to all others who did so beore in real life or before or after on the web would imply some heavy pushing of the anecdotic in a very biassed way.//
Seriously, what is the last time you found anyone who raised ojections to unconditional obedience to Authority who turned out to be study of Perfect Compliance in his personal life?
This is especially so with anglosaxons: you know that if one of those brings up freedom or liberty, he is up to no good. They usually back up this claim to freedom or liberty by referring to a document we all know to be based on a contemptible and evil LIE.
Another curious buzzword here is ''bias'. ( i do not hear Macron or Dumbrovskis using that term a lot, you know )
That smells of having right wing extremist views. Do you actually think that cam be permitted to exst after Hanau? They who hold those views are terrorists and/or terrorist-supporters.
The world will be a better place ater the last libertarian and the last republican and similar ilk has been sent to burn in Hell.
//Social Credit System in the PRC.//
Which would have been a great idea - if only the leaders of that country were upstanding people...
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- @Joakim von Anka "It rather soiunds like you have some kind of problem with the concept of unconditional compliance with Rules and Regulations."
For one, a condition is, it is a valid rule. Not driving while under influence is.
For another, a condition is, it is applicable. In an empty road with only a drunk driver and no obstacles where he would endanger people, but on the other hand an emergency of starvation, it would definitely be not be applicable.
I take it, your acquaintance did not have this kind of excuse.
I very definitely think, he should not have a driver's licence. This said, he should not be your slave either. You just expressed the opinion he should do only what ordered, for the rest of his life. That's slavery.
As far as I know, he has killed or wounded no one while driving while under influence. He has just broken a law which should not have been broken, and for which a reasonable punishment is:
- a) losing the driver's licence (if as much);
- b) + a fine or a few months of prison.
There is a vast disproportion between a few months and a lifetime.
"Which leads us to the inferment that you canot be relied upon to follow rules PERFECTLY, does it not?"
Cannot. Or can't. Canot* is the type of boat of which a kayak is an example.
I don't know exactly what group you are considering as "us" I do not consider it has any legal standing to take any decisions about me.
"Which leads us to the supposition that you are a clear and present danger to the health and safety, does it not?"
- a) every rule in the world is not about safety;
- b) and I don't have a driver's licence, plus I am not often even tipsy.
Why did you infer I was kind of a parallel case to your acquaintance?
"By DUI, one wilfully and knowingly endangers others. Explain to me how a POS who does so even deserve to continue living."
Because the legal punishment is not death penalty. Nulla poena sine lege.
You were the one asking for unconditional compliance with rules, why don't you show some around the penal code?
There are other things to be said why he doesn't deserve either death penalty or lifelong submission to slavery. But this one should at least suffice to YOU.
"Do you duty, demand your right."
One sometimes has to demand one's rights (including residual rights after a penalty incurred) to be able to do one's duty. Some rights are not conditioned on the duties you are thinking of in this case.
"Obviously, that means ZERO rights for those who do not do their duty."
Your hideous ideology may mean that, but you could not live by that. You don't do your duty of respecting other people's (in the case of the DUI offender and some others : residual) liberties.
"Slavery implies the ownership of one human by another. Where precisely did I argue for that?"
I cite your previous words:
"making damn sure they do nothing they are not ORDERED to do"
= someone or something else, as opposed to they themselves would then be owning them.
"That seems like a rather sensible precaution since they have been proven to be incapable of following rules of their own volition."
Penal slavery is the idea behind prison. Now, prison is limited.** If a DUI offender has served his term, he may not have a right to get a driver's licence again, but he certainly has a right to otherwise be a free man again.
"Do you actually think Rulebreakers even deserve to continue draw oxygen? I don't."
That very much depends on what rule they have broken. Wilful killing of an innocent life? If a doctor aborts or a drug addict shoots during a hold up and kills, either of them can hang, as far as I am concerned.
Just taking a remotely somewhat stupid risk? Gimmie a break!
"Seriously, what is the last time you found anyone who raised ojections to unconditional obedience to Authority who turned out to be study of Perfect Compliance in his personal life?"
I'll suppose "ojections" are "objections".
Perfect compliance - unconditionally - is not a reasonable requirement of anyone. It's what evil Empires like Hittites and Assyrians were asking for. It's the essence of totalitarianism.
"They usually back up this claim to freedom or liberty by referring to a document we all know to be based on a contemptible and evil LIE."
If you mean Magna Charta, it so happens personal liberties in Christendom have a far deeper and older root : Christ.
"That smells of having right wing extremist views. Do you actually think that cam be permitted to exst after Hanau? They who hold those views are terrorists and/or terrorist-supporters."
You cannot conflate Dollfuss and Schuschnigg with Hitler, and you cannot conflate me with the Hanau shooter. I do not support him.
The first line of defense against getting a replacement of populations is getting back to a Catholic family morality, not complaining that Muslims have such a thing too.
"Which would have been a great idea - if only the leaders of that country were upstanding people..."
I kind of got it that you preferred People's Republic of China over Major Douglas.
Which kind of argues why someone was - your screen name screams "banker" or "bank sympathiser" to anyone knowing Swedish, it's Uncle Scrooge - compared bankers to the minions of Antichrist. Or considered them his forerunners.
- Actually, Bernie Sanders had a point : "if a bank is too big to fail, it is too big to exist".
In other words a bank should not be able to survive on bail outs from government each time it screws up.
You know a song which was popular in the eighties or nineties in Sweden?
Jag vet vad jag gör
Jag är inte bankdirektör
A man enhancing his declaration of love or his proposal with the reassuring "I know what I do, I'm not a bank director" - and there is a history behind it, after the yuppies had failed.
- 6:12 Would you consider there is a parallel between Manning turning away from Douglasism and Franco turning away from Corporativism and Autonomism to what is known as Tecnocracía?
In a way there is a difference, since, it partly depended on what guys got elected for parliament in Spain, Cortes as they are called, and who he could form government with, there were two legal parties, "his own" Falange and the Carlists, and the Falange was always in majority, but from say 1960 to 1975 when he died Spain was fairly Capitalist, with some Gaullist style "Dirigisme" - government investments in infra structure (I dislike dams for electricity which flooded villages that had to be evacuated) ...
By the way - what you say about Bill Bennett of BC is largely true of Franco in Spain : introducing lots of modernisation and infra-structure.
Could Franco have had an English side? Well, for one he was from Galicia which sees lots of sailors, but for another, his military carreer started under Alfonso XIII - whose Queen was of the English royal house. Looking up : Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg.
- 10:21 When are you coming to my favourite, Louis Even!
He is actually somewhat unknown in English, to judge from the much shorter and actually not quite correct wikipedian article:
"was a lay Christian leader"
Not quite what the French article says ...
"il entre chez les Frères de l'instruction chrétienne en 1896. Dévoué à l'étude, ses parents lui avaient appris la spiritualité de Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort. Il se démarque comme l'un des meilleurs sujets des frères.
"En 1907, deux années après le passage de la loi Combes, les communautés religieuses françaises sont obligées de cesser leurs activités : plusieurs choisissent de s'exiler au Canada. Even fait partie de ceux qui partent vers l'Amérique. D'abord professeur dans le Montana, près des montagnes Rocheuses, il arrive au Canada le 24 juin 1906."
So, he was at least as much a religious as the guys who enter the Missionaries of Charity of Mother Theresa, and he was exiled from France for that particular reason.
As to the economic theories, and these discrediting Douglasism (I got the pun now, ten minutes later if not more!) I wonder if they would stand up to scrutiny on Even's "Island of the Shipwrecked".
L'Île des naufragés
Par Louis Even le mardi, 15 septembre 1936. Dans Crédit Social
Ah, the English title is "The Money Myth Exploded"
The Money Myth Exploded
Written by Louis Even on Sunday, 01 January 1939. Posted in Social Credit
Here is Alain Pilote exposing same theory in more sober*** terms:
Banks create money as a debt
Written by Alain Pilote on Tuesday, 01 November 2016. Posted in Economic Democracy (book)
* Actually, the word is canoe in English.
** Not for all offenses, but most.
*** I was tired when writing this, otherwise I would not have used "more sober" about "more literal". Fantasy and fable, taken as such, are not drunkenness!