Tuesday, October 20, 2020

Hemant Tried to Debunk Genesis 40

Everything Wrong With Genesis 40 in the Bible
Friendly Atheist | 19.X.2020

1:11 Just so you are aware, you are right now not asking what is wrong with Joseph, but what is wrong with E G Y P T.

The Bible would actually agree (later on too) sth is fairly deeply wrong in Egypt. When the end times Jerusalem (not heavenly, but earthly) is described as fallen from spiritual greatness into sth bad, it is described (Apocalypse 11) as "spiritually Sodom and Egypt".

1:15 Here is it the pharaonic justice which makes no sense.

That will be a theme later on too.

1:31 Most dreams don't matter.

Most dreams of most Biblical persons are not in the Bible, because they don't matter.

The dreams that are in the Bible are those that do matter.

It would be a waste of good papyrus (oldest material for writing on, before both parchment and paper) to state "and someone was dreaming that night, but it didn't really matter". That's why the Bible doesn't read like a realistic novel all that much : papyrus was not as cheap as paper is.

2:04 Joseph's point was, his inspiration from God was superior to the pseudo-science of dream books.

Btw, I'd say modern psychology falls largely under the ban of the Council of Ancyra (modern Ankara, but it wasn't Turkish back then) against that pseudo-science.

2:06 These guys were Egyptian pagans and as such superstitious.

God is going to give them sth more precise than they would usually get from that superstition.

Yeah, precisely, Joseph was in gaol with people who wanted readings from psychics all the time.

That was his situation. Now we'll find out how God used it.

3:09 People who work at McDonalds right now may not dream about French Fries, but people who worked at McDonalds two weeks ago and have had a very rough time the last two weeks might do so.

While Pharaos were exacting, I think being a butler would still be less harrassingly stressful than working at McDonalds.

4:10 Two things:
  • a) Joseph's interpretation isn't wrong
  • b) he will come to a position where being wrong would land him very ill with Pharao ...

6:30 No, Joseph had no resources to bribe Pharao with, and Pharao had no way of knowing what Joseph had said.

6:38 "Joseph had to know that"

We don't know how long Joseph had been in Potiphar's house. We don't know if he had been aware of Pharao's previous birthday. We don't know if the pharao changed when he was in prison.

Even with the same pharao and Joseph having seen the previous birthday, he may not have mastered Egyptian calendar (he could have been used to either Hebrew or Sumerian calendar from home, either one is different from Egyptian, precisely like Hebrew is now different from Gregorian).

It is very probable Joseph had no way to know that.

Your interpretation of what happened is more improbable than a miraculous true interpretation of dreams, and you would know that if you weren't prejudiced against miracles.

7:17 It failed in the first round, but if he had been wrong, it would have failed totally forever.

See next chapter.

below II

Infinite Monkey
And yet we see papyrus wasted for this:
“Some time later, the cupbearer and the baker of the king of Egypt offended their master,” again, “the king of Egypt. 2 Pharaoh,” aka the king of Egypt, “was angry with his two officials,” we know, “the chief cupbearer and the chief baker,” as if we weren’t already told this, “3 and put them in custody in the house of the captain of the guard, in the same prison where Joseph was confined. 4 The captain of the guard assigned them to Joseph, and he attended them.

After they had been in custody for some time, 5 each of the two men” who were they. “—the cupbearer and the baker” and who did they work for? “of the king of Egypt,” right! And after they pissed him off where did they go? “who were being held in prison.” How many times do we need to be told this?

And this kind of repetition is common to the Bible. Remember Abraham lying to the king about his relationship to his wife? Three times. Then his son did it too.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Infinite Monkey You know, oral style spills off, and oral style means you repeat important information in case it should be lost to the ear one of the times.

below VI

@Hans-Georg Lundahl So you say 'probably' a lot in your arguments and then tell someone else's thoughts improbable. Hmmmmm.... I see what you did there.

Hans-Georg Lundahl Hello and well said, Joseph had no power, authority or even influence to even be near Pharaoh let alone talk with him about any of these things.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Daniel Exactly.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Anecdotal1 Yes, you see I know the difference between probably and provenly.

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